FTR on SMLEs
- Thread starter GoodDoomguy
- Start date
SMLEs were FTRed for many years, in many nations.
That's a pretty broad question.
Early FTRs used period parts and as those rifles wore, there were new made parts with minor differences, such as striker/cocking pieces, elimination of mag cut offs and the list goes on and on and on.
Sometimes they scavenged parts from unrepairable rifles and refinished them, sometimes new old stock parts were used and as often as not, the replacement part would be an approved by committee, modified spec part.
All would be correct.
Usually it would be appropriate to say that a rifle was FTRed to the accepted standards at the date of the FTR.
That's a pretty broad question.
Early FTRs used period parts and as those rifles wore, there were new made parts with minor differences, such as striker/cocking pieces, elimination of mag cut offs and the list goes on and on and on.
Sometimes they scavenged parts from unrepairable rifles and refinished them, sometimes new old stock parts were used and as often as not, the replacement part would be an approved by committee, modified spec part.
All would be correct.
Usually it would be appropriate to say that a rifle was FTRed to the accepted standards at the date of the FTR.
Last edited:
It's highly unlikely that the rifle is "all original WW1". As mentioned, these would go through countless visits to the repair shops and factories. Perhaps the receiver and bolt and sights may be the original, but the rest...unlikely.
Exactly, well said.
Very few "all original" SMLE rifles are out there. Much like truly matching K98k's - they aren't common.
There are some WW1 bring-back SMLE rifles, it is known (and in published literature) that a few soldiers did sneak their own rifles back home, but it is extremely rare. Bringing back an enemy rifle, or handgun, helmet, bayonet or otherwise was much easier.
I have only seen a couple SMLE rifles that were truly factory original.
For the OP - most rifles that have had little updates in the field would never have been marked, but anything major, such as a rebuild "officially done" in a factory or depot would have the date stamped on the receiver somewhere, usually opposite the side with the factory and date markings. It will look like this; '14 or '16 etc. with the two digits being the year. Later, they switched to stamping FTR (exact year eludes me at the moment) followed by the date. Most done post WW1, well into the 1950's for all makes and models in most commonwealth countries.
Hi GoodD. Factory Thorough Repair SMLE rifles were reasonably common a few decades ago. All were redone in Suncorite (black paint) and had new beach stocks and usually dated 1953 or 54. Some .22 SMLEs in this group too. All were refurbished by BSA with new BSA barrels- probably a make work project on a foreign approved contract awarded to BSA to keep the factory running till the FN was made. Long Branch re-built someNo.4s after WW2 usually dated /46 and of course many Brit No. 4s upgraded by Fazakerly. Prior to WW2 a rifle was repaired and made serviceable but finish remained blue with the repair date '34 say stamped into the LS socket. A FTR rifle should be totally serviceable. As far as bring back Enfields or Rosses they are non-existent unless Battalion trophies. Only fools think otherwise. Any SMLE rifle repaired during War time was usually not marked at all. What the seller probably meant is that all the parts have a war time blued finish that match up. Most are not aware that Pattern B beach furniture was approved post WW1 so if that '17 has any beach it is a replacement part. Prior to WW2 Canada upgraded almost all of their SMLEs and used whatever replacement parts were on hand. JOHN
GoodDoomguy
CGN Regular
Thank you Nestor, pcvando, and jtaylor for the thorough replies. Learned alot really.
I asked if the FTR was WWI last night and just got this reply:
"this FTR would of been done wartime, it's only stamped once on the rifle and everything matches so it would of been something minor."
The bolt, receiver and sights match. Can I take his word for it? Thanks.
I asked if the FTR was WWI last night and just got this reply:
"this FTR would of been done wartime, it's only stamped once on the rifle and everything matches so it would of been something minor."
The bolt, receiver and sights match. Can I take his word for it? Thanks.
Only you can answer that one.
If the price is good, buy it. They aren't making them anymore and decent units are hard to find.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
$1400 better be one hell of a nice No1
1917... likely rebuilt at some point in time, and if you see its FTR marked then it was rebuilt.
May have a newer barrel and then expect to see a renumbered bolt.
look for date marking on the barrel, left side of the knox.
1917... likely rebuilt at some point in time, and if you see its FTR marked then it was rebuilt.
May have a newer barrel and then expect to see a renumbered bolt.
look for date marking on the barrel, left side of the knox.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Is what makes a "market" - seller has a thing, buyer with money to pay wants to buy it - between them to sort out a final number - is only between them - what they know or do not know, etc. Nobody else can "set a price". A "buyer" with no money (or not enough money) might be just "kicking tires". A seller with exorbitant price might be just "testing the waters" - does not really want to sell it. So it goes for 100 year old stuff.
Within the past year I paid a good amount of dollars for a particular Mauser rifle that I am sure was 10% of that, or less, at SIR, about 40 years ago. Did not buy one then. They have not made any more. I wanted one and decided that I could afford that price. So I bought it ... From posts that I have since seen on CGN, I think even the seller was surprised that it went at his asking price - what he knew, what I think I know, etc. all came into play, I think. I believe that I got a "good deal", so did he believe that. But, in the end, I have that rifle that I wanted. Because it completes a "pairing". "All matching" to the last little part, both an Infantry Long Rifle 1909 Argentine and an Argentine 1909 Cavalry Carbine - both in 7.65 x 53 - or whatever you choose to name that cartridge - 7.65 Mauser, 7.65 Argentine, 7.65 Belgian, and so on... Satisfied buyer; satisfied seller - how it is supposed to be.
Within the past year I paid a good amount of dollars for a particular Mauser rifle that I am sure was 10% of that, or less, at SIR, about 40 years ago. Did not buy one then. They have not made any more. I wanted one and decided that I could afford that price. So I bought it ... From posts that I have since seen on CGN, I think even the seller was surprised that it went at his asking price - what he knew, what I think I know, etc. all came into play, I think. I believe that I got a "good deal", so did he believe that. But, in the end, I have that rifle that I wanted. Because it completes a "pairing". "All matching" to the last little part, both an Infantry Long Rifle 1909 Argentine and an Argentine 1909 Cavalry Carbine - both in 7.65 x 53 - or whatever you choose to name that cartridge - 7.65 Mauser, 7.65 Argentine, 7.65 Belgian, and so on... Satisfied buyer; satisfied seller - how it is supposed to be.
Last edited:
Minty, non FTR, maybe $1400. Not for a stamped FTR, no matter how clean.
Too much…by $300 if it’s indeed mint FTR No1. On the other hand you have to be honest with yourself. If you are planning to keep it for another 10-20 years then you are just ok. Prices are slowly going up. I am currently working on restoring FTR No1 Mk3 that was a bit rusty and completely covered with the lacquer. It should be a good shooter, but will never become a collector piece. Nice bore though with all the matching numbers. I paid $800 shipped and insured. Year ago I came across another one of the FTR’ed No1 that was mint. All matching. I think that I paid $1100 all in. These are nice, but you have to know a lot before spending your hard earned money on one. I have seen some wild claims and prices for very average rifles that were even obviously desporterized. Ask for the detailed pictures and post them here. We may be able to help you out.
GoodDoomguy
CGN Regular
Potashminer I agree, but I'm also new so willing to pay over the market price but not overly so. Still doing my homework but I'm really new to Enfields so don't know where to look thus here for your gentlemen's advise.
dipoter he did showed me a few photos of him holding it, and the only photo of the marking is really blurry to the point of illegible. I'm still waiting for higher res photos and posted this while waiting.
bearhunter can you tell me how much you would pay for one I described? I think I'll go from there?
Nestor I do plan on keeping it til I retire or expire, thus I'm hoping for one fine sample.
I bought over twenty firearms over the last few years, only sold two. I do intent to keep my collection and not really looking for an inflation for a quick resell.
How much do you guys think is reasonable? Should I bargain to maybe $1000?
dipoter he did showed me a few photos of him holding it, and the only photo of the marking is really blurry to the point of illegible. I'm still waiting for higher res photos and posted this while waiting.
bearhunter can you tell me how much you would pay for one I described? I think I'll go from there?
Nestor I do plan on keeping it til I retire or expire, thus I'm hoping for one fine sample.
I bought over twenty firearms over the last few years, only sold two. I do intent to keep my collection and not really looking for an inflation for a quick resell.
How much do you guys think is reasonable? Should I bargain to maybe $1000?
