Full Ambi Out of the Box in .45acp?

[TDC]

Darn, THAT is why the 1911 is an also ran in IPSC, IDPA and Steel Challenge. Curse those old guns and
their tricky controls.

They run them because heavy guns with short light single action triggers cover up poor form. That's not to say all who compete have bad form. Single action guns with exposed hammers and low magazine capacities and manual safeties are not ideally suited to service.


Tell me how many times you've seen a glock user attempt to fire only to have the manual safetty engaged? Oh wait the answer is zero. Now tell me how many 1911 users you've seen draw and crush the trigger only to realize the safety was engaged? Call me crazy but not having to worry about a manual safety makes my job a lot easier when I'm pressed for time to place rounds on target.

Tdc

 

[yohann160]

They run them because heavy guns with short light single action triggers cover up poor form. That's not to say all who compete have bad form. Single action guns with exposed hammers and low magazine capacities and mnsisl safeties are not ideally suited to service.


Tell me how many times you've seen a glock user attempt to fire only to have the manual safetty engaged? Oh wait the answer is zero. Now tell me how many 1911 users you've seen draw and crush the trigger only to realize the safety was engaged? Call me crazy but not having to worry about a manual safety makes my job a lot easier when I'm pressed for time to place rounds on target.

Tdc

Lol. Umadbro?

Last time I checked the 1911 was successfully fielded with the US Military as a service sidearm for nearly a century. You seriously need to drop some of the glock cool aid for a second.

 

[TK-Hryciuk]

^
This

 

[Canuck223]

Call me crazy but not having to worry about a manual safety makes my job a lot easier when I'm pressed for time to place rounds on target.

Tdc

A man has to know his limitations.

 

[Colquhoun]

Things are getting vicious at the Tupperware party!!
All of us 1911 shooters need to work on fundamentals I guess....

 

[TDC]

Lol. Umadbro?

Last time I checked the 1911 was successfully fielded with the US Military as a service sidearm for nearly a century. You seriously need to drop some of the glock cool aid for a second.

Right Being issued and in service, does not mean it was successful nor does it mean it was ideal. Don't forget, big green rarely uses pistols so saying that 1911's hanging off the side of an officers belt or a machine gunners for decades is evidence of "solid performance" is a bit ignorant. Many here need to drop the "iron and wood" mentality and objectively compare a 100 year old design to modern designs. The comparison between old and new isn't even a contest. 1911's are beyond their time. Same goes for the desire for a full ambi pistol. Completely unnecessary if you apply a modern manual of arms. Ambi guns, interchangeable backstraps and the plethora of "custom" 1911 finishes/styles/colours/packages etc are nothing but marketing. Geared for the civilian plinker and poser extraordinaire. All useless gimmicks that serve no practical purpose. Most have no positive effect on performance or reliability while others give the illusion of improved performance. Then again, when the majority of users/owners have no defined purpose for the firearm, and thus fail to apply any sort of criteria behind their purchase. Selling such crap isn't much of a challenge. Add in the fact that approximately 1%(or less) of users/owners have any sort of formal training, and the challenge of selling such products gets easier and easier.

I have to question why someone would seek a full ambi gun? Any quality/reputable school is more than capable of teaching proper functioning of the gun with either hand without the advent of ambi controls, to both left and right handed shooters. Lefties have been coming up with effective methods of operating predominantly "right handed"( I say "right handed" as the standard setup is presumed to be ideal for righties. The reality is that some "right" guns are setup more for lefties such as SIG pistols and VZ/CZ 58/858 rifles) tools since the dawn of time. Furthermore, if you don't intend to compete, train, or use your pistol for personal defence, then why do you need an ambi gun? What's the rush to reload or unload? There's no time limit when a ceasefire is called on the line. Seeing as how most guns are not full ambi in their controls, wouldn't learning on one make it a specialized skill unique to that make and model?

Here's the breakdown of logic for wanting/needing an ambi gun

Want ambi but have no training= no idea what you want or need, victim of marketing hype
want ambi but have no desire to compete/train/PD= No practical need for such attributes
Want ambi and have training= Your training sucks or you've chosen to ignore practical knowledge
Want ambi and wish to compete/train/HD(or do)= Your training sucks or is abscent, and you'll see no appreciable gain in performance as in time and/or score. No idea what you need.

TDC

 

[Canuck223]

Right Being issued and in service, does not mean it was successful nor does it mean it was ideal. Don't forget, big green rarely uses pistols so saying that 1911's hanging off the side of an officers belt or a machine gunners for decades is evidence of "solid performance" is a bit ignorant. Many here need to drop the "iron and wood" mentality and objectively compare a 100 year old design to modern designs. The comparison between old and new isn't even a contest. 1911's are beyond their time. Same goes for the desire for a full ambi pistol. Completely unnecessary if you apply a modern manual of arms. Ambi guns, interchangeable backstraps and the plethora of "custom" 1911 finishes/styles/colours/packages etc are nothing but marketing. Geared for the civilian plinker and poser extraordinaire. All useless gimmicks that serve no practical purpose. Most have no positive effect on performance or reliability while others give the illusion of improved performance. Then again, when the majority of users/owners have no defined purpose for the firearm, and thus fail to apply any sort of criteria behind their purchase. Selling such crap isn't much of a challenge. Add in the fact that approximately 1%(or less) of users/owners have any sort of formal training, and the challenge of selling such products gets easier and easier.

I have to question why someone would seek a full ambi gun? Any quality/reputable school is more than capable of teaching proper functioning of the gun with either hand without the advent of ambi controls, to both left and right handed shooters. Lefties have been coming up with effective methods of operating predominantly "right handed"( I say "right handed" as the standard setup is presumed to be ideal for righties. The reality is that some "right" guns are setup more for lefties such as SIG pistols and VZ/CZ 58/858 rifles) tools since the dawn of time. Furthermore, if you don't intend to compete, train, or use your pistol for personal defence, then why do you need an ambi gun? What's the rush to reload or unload? There's no time limit when a ceasefire is called on the line. Seeing as how most guns are not full ambi in their controls, wouldn't learning on one make it a specialized skill unique to that make and model?

Here's the breakdown of logic for wanting/needing an ambi gun

Want ambi but have no training= no idea what you want or need, victim of marketing hype
want ambi but have no desire to compete/train/PD= No practical need for such attributes
Want ambi and have training= Your training sucks or you've chosen to ignore practical knowledge
Want ambi and wish to compete/train/HD(or do)= Your training sucks or is abscent, and you'll see no appreciable gain in performance as in time and/or score. No idea what you need.

TDC

Wow, I bask in your awesomeness.

Here I've gone 25 years mistakingly thinking being cross dominant was an advantage.

If I only could have had the benefit of your wisdom years ago, I'd have gouged out my left eye and cut off my left trigger finger.

 

[THX1139]

Lol. Umadbro?

Last time I checked the 1911 was successfully fielded with the US Military as a service sidearm for nearly a century. You seriously need to drop some of the glock cool aid for a second.

My Walther is just like his Glock, only better.

 

[st1264]

How about getting back on topic fellas...

 

[TDC]

Wow, I bask in your awesomeness.

Here I've gone 25 years mistakingly thinking being cross dominant was an advantage.

If I only could have had the benefit of your wisdom years ago, I'd have gouged out my left eye and cut off my left trigger finger.

I never said being cross dominant or ambidextrous was a bad thing. Cross dominance is less of an issue than most think. Being ambidextrous is a huge benefit when it comes to using any tool. Not sure where you got the impression I was trashing either.

TDC

ETA: Oh, and I also have to ask, why .45ACP? More lack of knowledge and blind bravado?

 

[TDC]

Oh and here's a prime case and point

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?849745-Colt-cqbp

More useless crap. still a pathetic 8 round capacity. Still chambered in a non NATO cartridge with ZERO gain in terminal performance for the increased weight, recoil, and reduced capacity. The Tan finish is a gimmick that can be accomplished with a can of spray paint. The rail is only 20 plus years behind the power curve. Night sights with the "no snag" angled the wrong way. The matching grips are just as useless, as is the "match" barrel with a likely tight match chamber. Yes, a solid fighting gun. But wait folks! It fails to incorporate full ambi controls. I guess its either not as advanced as you'd like to believe, or full ambi controls just aren't required. I'm going to go with both.. If you didn't already figure it out, I suspect there's a bit of nepotism involved, seeing as it is Colt.

TDC

 

[Canuck223]

Not sure where you got the impression I was trashing either.

Oh, and I also have to ask, why .45ACP? More lack of knowledge and blind bravado?

Hold on, I'll put the popcorn on. This could be fun.

For the record, I haven't owned a .45 in about 10 years now.

My paper and steel targets respond really well to my 9mm. When Grand Power start shipping the larger framed guns, I will probably get the .40 if only to see how well the design translates into the larger calibers. As the bore is only about 3mm higher than the 9mm version, it should be cool as the underside of my pillow. If I really like it, I may switch to standard. Probably not until they release the adjustable sight model. In case you next take issue with adjustable sights, I actually use and like my fixed sights, but like the ability to switch bullet weights for different sports.

 

[THX1139]

ETA: Oh, and I also have to ask, why .45ACP? More lack of knowledge and blind bravado?

If one wanted a pistol in .40 they'd only have to look at the same models that have full ambi in 9mm (like my P99) so I didn't see the point in asking.

I'm not actually looking to buy another pistol, I was just reading another thread about 9mm ambi pistols and I couldn't recall seeing one in .45 acp. Personally I'd prefer one without a manual safety, for the reasons you point out, but I don't want the list to exclude them in case anyone wanted, or was ambivalent to them.

 

[TDC]

Hold on, I'll put the popcorn on. This could be fun.

For the record, I haven't owned a .45 in about 10 years now.

My paper and steel targets respond really well to my 9mm. When Grand Power start shipping the larger framed guns, I will probably get the .40 if only to see how well the design translates into the larger calibers. As the bore is only about 3mm higher than the 9mm version, it should be cool as the underside of my pillow. If I really like it, I may switch to standard. Probably not until they release the adjustable sight model. In case you next take issue with adjustable sights, I actually use and like my fixed sights, but like the ability to switch bullet weights for different sports.

You'd be right on. Adjustable sights are another gimmick on a duty/service type pistol. They're fragile, usually not tritium and cover up poor form. Different weights of projectiles has a near zero effect at typical handgun distances. In fact, different weights have near zero effect at extreme handgun ranges(50 yards plus). Learn to shoot and all these "improvements" are just a waste of money. If people invested as much into their skill set as they do into the hardware they use. There would be an insane amount of accomplished shooters.

If one wanted a pistol in .40 they'd only have to look at the same models that have full ambi in 9mm (like my P99) so I didn't see the point in asking.

I'm not actually looking to buy another pistol, I was just reading another thread about 9mm ambi pistols and I couldn't recall seeing one in .45 acp. Personally I'd prefer one without a manual safety, for the reasons you point out, but I don't want the list to exclude them in case anyone wanted, or was ambivalent to them.

Fair enough..

TDC

 

[carbonrod]

Adjustable sights are another gimmick on a duty/service type pistol. They're fragile, usually not tritium and cover up poor form.

How do adjustable sights cover up poor form? Uber-operator screwing them around to adjust to their POI/POA flaw of the day?

 

[TDC]

How do adjustable sights cover up poor form? Uber-operator screwing them around to adjust to their POI/POA flaw of the day?

Very few quality handguns with standard sights(which are adjustable, just not readily) require any sort of adjustment in the sights. I've never moved any sights on any of my pistols and they all shoot where I point them. The target adjustable sights you commonly see are favored by those who believe their pistol and/or ammo combination needs to be 'tuned" to shoot straight. That's straight BS. I posted a couple videos of a guy in the US who teaches and preaches sightless point/instinct shooting. Making hits out to 100 plus yards without any sights. I've personally shot 12"x12" steel plate at 50 yards measured with a stock G17 that had the sights removed. In fact, I had a novice shooter(less than 1500 rounds ever fired) making hits in less than a magazine. So do tell, how important/necessary are sights in general let alone adjustable sights?

I have yet to encounter a pistol that doesn't shoot straight. The user is the primary source of failure and poor results. Tuning adjustable sights or searching for a pet load is delusional behavior perpetuated by misinformed individuals who lack the fundamentals. Adjusting your sights to compensate for your flinch is where adjustable sights excel. Same can be said for too much or too little trigger finger placement issues.

TDC

 

[Cocked&Locked]

I'd have to go with TDC on this one. In the folk i coach, almost every pistol that shoots High/Low/left/right cause "the sights are off" shoots to point of aim with a good shooter, and the shooter with the POI issue is shooting with poor form or trigger control, albeit sometimes consistently. Yes, they could move the sights and compensate for the consistent flinch or jerk, or they could just learn proper shooting form.

That said, i'll leave the sights on my pistols, but hitting without them at 100 yards would be some pretty decent shooting if you can do it regularly from a draw rather then walking it on!

 

[Canuck223]

Very few quality handguns with standard sights(which are adjustable, just not readily) require any sort of adjustment in the sights. I've never moved any sights on any of my pistols and they all shoot where I point them. The target adjustable sights you commonly see are favored by those who believe their pistol and/or ammo combination needs to be 'tuned" to shoot straight. That's straight BS. I posted a couple videos of a guy in the US who teaches and preaches sightless point/instinct shooting. Making hits out to 100 plus yards without any sights. I've personally shot 12"x12" steel plate at 50 yards measured with a stock G17 that had the sights removed. In fact, I had a novice shooter(less than 1500 rounds ever fired) making hits in less than a magazine. So do tell, how important/necessary are sights in general let alone adjustable sights?

I have yet to encounter a pistol that doesn't shoot straight. The user is the primary source of failure and poor results. Tuning adjustable sights or searching for a pet load is delusional behavior perpetuated by misinformed individuals who lack the fundamentals. Adjusting your sights to compensate for your flinch is where adjustable sights excel. Same can be said for too much or too little trigger finger placement issues.

TDC

Have you ever thought about teaching a shooting school? All this wisdom is going to waste.

 

[TDC]

Have you ever thought about teaching a shooting school? All this wisdom is going to waste.

I've taught more than a few how to apply the fundamentals. I haven't offered my services for money for a couple of reasons. First is that I have more respect for those who taught me then to. Start trying to cut their grass. Second there isn't a large enough market for professional training in Canada. It wasn't that long ago that a rifle course by sonny pizakus was cancelled due to low enrollment. Third i couldn't make a living off it. Fourth although I can shoot and do know what I'm doing my credentials lack the prerequisite mil or Le experience to warrant being taken seriously by either mil/Le types or fellow commoners. Fifth I don't think I have the skills nor experience to command payment for what I believe is a basic skill/knowledge level.

That being said. I don't mind offering advice or doing a little coaching of others when at the range if asked.

Tdc

 

[Clobbersauras]

I had to adjust the sights on my G17. Consistently shooting left. Verified by two other very competent shooters.

Nothing is absolute TDC.

Also, there is a market for course work in Canada. You just have to have the credentials, skill sets and likeability to make it work. I've been to four sold out courses in Victoria and am attending a fifth in Vancouver in three weeks (of which there is a second course a few weeks later because the first one sold out). Check out my sig line...