Full length resize or not
- Thread starter Mike G
- Start date
Neck sizing brass that was fired in your rifle make for a tighter fitting case, not a bad thing and people claim better accuracy. For a hunting rifle I resize to insure smooth chambering less chance of feeding issue when a quick second shot is needed. Full resize works the brass more and may shorten case life some, but again depends on how many rounds you shoot per year. For a semi, pump, or lever actions full resizing is reccomended.
If you are going to use the brass in the same rifle and it is a bolt action, just neck size. Bonus to neck sizing is that if you have a good die (i.e. Redding) you don't have to use lube.
FL sizing shortens the life of your brass and you have to trim, chamfer, deburr more often. Dealing with the lube can be a pain sometimes too.
I would say neck sizing is better as you work your brass less. Still for maximum life you should anneal every five loads or so. May be able to get 30-40 reloads out of one case.
Another way almost as good is to use the FL die to partial neck size. Short stroke the press so only about 2/3 of the neck is sized. You can do that as well with the neck sizer. But with the FL die you have to option to periodically do a full FL. If you have the tools to measure it properly I would never stroke the die more than what it takes to bump the shoulder back 0.001 to 0.002". If your chamber is a bit on the loose side, and you bump the should back each time, you can run into head separation. See link below for more detail.
Case Head Separation
Another option is to use the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing. They work very well for neck sizing and need no lube or clean up.
A last option is to use a Forster Bushing/Bump die. With it you can bump the shoulder 0.001", leave the body alone, and also size as much of the neck as you want and minimize the working of the brass. The bushing die typically does not use an expander ball, so it just sizes the neck down enough to grip the bullet. Various bushing sizes are available so you can choose your neck tension.
Another way almost as good is to use the FL die to partial neck size. Short stroke the press so only about 2/3 of the neck is sized. You can do that as well with the neck sizer. But with the FL die you have to option to periodically do a full FL. If you have the tools to measure it properly I would never stroke the die more than what it takes to bump the shoulder back 0.001 to 0.002". If your chamber is a bit on the loose side, and you bump the should back each time, you can run into head separation. See link below for more detail.
Case Head Separation
Another option is to use the Lee Collet Die for neck sizing. They work very well for neck sizing and need no lube or clean up.
A last option is to use a Forster Bushing/Bump die. With it you can bump the shoulder 0.001", leave the body alone, and also size as much of the neck as you want and minimize the working of the brass. The bushing die typically does not use an expander ball, so it just sizes the neck down enough to grip the bullet. Various bushing sizes are available so you can choose your neck tension.
FL sizing is great insurance for hunting loads. You need perfect feeding and performance in the field. Although a couple of my guns will shoot better with neck sizing ammo, the majority will shoot very well indeed with fl sized cases. Unless you are a committed target shooter, go ahead and full size just be careful not to over work the shoulder of the case.
sharp shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Essex county (Ontario)
what does "bump the shoulder mean"?
what do you mean "2/3 of the neck is sized? is that visible on the outside of the neck? Does that effect accuracy?
what do you mean "2/3 of the neck is sized? is that visible on the outside of the neck? Does that effect accuracy?
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I do whatever that particular rifle needs, always trying to work the brass the least amount possible.
Some rifles are fine and totally reliable with neck sizing only, so I neck size.
Some rifles need a full length resize to be reliable, so I FL resize.
I've got a couple of rifles that need full length, small base resizing to be reliable and accurate, and so that's what they get.
Some rifles are fine and totally reliable with neck sizing only, so I neck size.
Some rifles need a full length resize to be reliable, so I FL resize.
I've got a couple of rifles that need full length, small base resizing to be reliable and accurate, and so that's what they get.
Bumping the shoulder means pushing it back. If you have a barrel which has excessive headspace (distance from the shoulder to the bolt face), your brass expands to fill this space when you fire it. The shoulder thus moves away from the bolt head stretching the brass. A standard FL die is sized short so that it produces the shortest possible case length, so if it happens to be used in a very short chamber it will still fit. So what happens is the FL die can be pushing the shoulder back as much as 0.010" every time you reload. Cases can't take that.
One way around it is to adjust your press so it short strokes and the shell holder does not contact the base of the die. Ideally you want to adjust it so the shoulder is only moved back 0.001". That case will not fit in another short chamber, but it will fit in the gun that fired it, almost perfectly, and from then on you will not be stretching the brass. The hard part is measuring it. I believe Hornady sells a gauge to do it. They call them headspace gauges, but they are not really measuring headspace which is the chamber in your gun. They are for measuring cases.
Hornady Gauges
Sizing only 2/3 of the neck is taking this one step further, and is actually easier. You again adjust the press stroke so it goes short to the point that only 2/3 of the neck is sized. You can see this by eye, or if not put some black marker on the neck first and you should see it. Start long and adjust down tighter until you get to 2/3 or so. Lock your die there. Check that the cases fit your gun before loading, and if so, you are good to go. You may not get away with this forever, but if they start to get tight closing the bolt down, then try for the 0.001-0.002" shoulder bump.
The 2/3 method leaves an unsized part of the neck that should fit your chamber very snugly. I feel this helps center the cartridge and get the bullet off to centered start in the bore, improving accuracy.
Google "German Salazar" and/or "Rifleman's Journal". There is an article somewhere in their explaining why Full length sizing is ALWAYS THE BEST way to go.
You will also find other great articles that even the most experienced of handloaders would benefit from (e.g., what is the best bullet seater, how to "index" your brass for optimum accuracy, setting the proper shoulder bump, etc.). I have read alot of handloading articles and can say that the articles from this site are among the best - very scientific.
You will also find other great articles that even the most experienced of handloaders would benefit from (e.g., what is the best bullet seater, how to "index" your brass for optimum accuracy, setting the proper shoulder bump, etc.). I have read alot of handloading articles and can say that the articles from this site are among the best - very scientific.
Except that German will be using a special custom made Full Length sizing die which matches his chamber exactly. That is very different than using an off the shelf FL die. The problem is tolerances. Gun manufacturers are allowed tolerances, and cartridge manufacturers are also allowed tolerances. The cartridge guys have to manufacture right to the small end of those tolerances to make sure their ammo fits the smallest chamber out there. The gun manufacturers have to make their chambers to the largest size to be sure all cartridges fit. So you essentially double the tolerances and usually have a sloppy fit. The FL die manufacturer has to do the same as the cartridge guy and size to the smallest possible. That is why FL sizing for a factory chamber using a standard off the shelf FL die is probably the worst thing for your brass and accuracy. It does ensure the cartridge feeds well though.
I usually neck size using a Lee Collet die until I start getting resistance in chambering (usually 2 to 3 shots depending on load). I also use Redding bushing dies (both neck and FL), but I get a little more run-out with them than the Lee Collet.
When the time comes to bump the shoulder, I use a different technique with a Redding body die, Forster bushing bump or FL, using Larry Willis' "Digital Headspace Gauge".
To set it up for a .002" bump on the shoulder I use the following procedure:
1. I take a case fire formed in my firearm. The case should be a tight fit so that it's as close as possible to chamber dimensions.
2. Set the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and zero the gauge.
3. Insert a .003" shim (Sinclair) on the FL, Redding body die or Forster Bushing bump die and screw the die in the press till it's snug on the shellholder.
4. Resize the case with that set up.
5. Place the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and get a measurement of the amount of shoulder bump.
6. If the bump measures .005" all you need to do is replace the .003" shim with a .006" shim and you get a .002" bump.
The beauty of this set up is that you don't need to touch the die even if you have multiple guns of the same caliber - you just change the shim in accordance with the bump you need. Also you can use another shim if you want more or less bump.
Occasionally, you get a minimal dimension chamber where you can only get less than .001" with the FL or body die. When this occurs, I use a dedicated shell holder which I sand on a flat surface to take off .001" or so.
When the time comes to bump the shoulder, I use a different technique with a Redding body die, Forster bushing bump or FL, using Larry Willis' "Digital Headspace Gauge".
To set it up for a .002" bump on the shoulder I use the following procedure:
1. I take a case fire formed in my firearm. The case should be a tight fit so that it's as close as possible to chamber dimensions.
2. Set the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and zero the gauge.
3. Insert a .003" shim (Sinclair) on the FL, Redding body die or Forster Bushing bump die and screw the die in the press till it's snug on the shellholder.
4. Resize the case with that set up.
5. Place the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and get a measurement of the amount of shoulder bump.
6. If the bump measures .005" all you need to do is replace the .003" shim with a .006" shim and you get a .002" bump.
The beauty of this set up is that you don't need to touch the die even if you have multiple guns of the same caliber - you just change the shim in accordance with the bump you need. Also you can use another shim if you want more or less bump.
Occasionally, you get a minimal dimension chamber where you can only get less than .001" with the FL or body die. When this occurs, I use a dedicated shell holder which I sand on a flat surface to take off .001" or so.
