Full length resize?
- Thread starter mrbeil
- Start date
- Location
- West Quebec
I would FL resize in any event..
In a safe location try to chamber these loaded rounds, the chamber of the new Enfield rifle is the only gauge for the loaded rounds you have.
And remember you have a long military chamber and our civilian SAAMI full length dies are way too short.
Below is a fired .303 British case resting in a Wilson case gauge, the amount the rear of the case is sticking above the gauge is how much longer the military chamber is than SAAMI standards.
You can buy a case forming and trim die and use it to bump the shoulder of the case back. Below I'm holding the case forming die and a fired case is in the die and my little finger is keeping the case from falling out. Meaning the only thing this die will touch is the shoulder of the case. And you adjust this die for minimum shoulder bump to fit your chamber "WITHOUT" full length resizing the entire case. At the maximum military headspace of .074 you can have as much as .016 head clearance or air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face. And if you full length resize your cases they will have a very short lifespan due to the case stretching to meet the bolt face.
And remember when neck sizing only to grease the rear of your locking lugs to prevent wear.
And remember you have a long military chamber and our civilian SAAMI full length dies are way too short.
Below is a fired .303 British case resting in a Wilson case gauge, the amount the rear of the case is sticking above the gauge is how much longer the military chamber is than SAAMI standards.
You can buy a case forming and trim die and use it to bump the shoulder of the case back. Below I'm holding the case forming die and a fired case is in the die and my little finger is keeping the case from falling out. Meaning the only thing this die will touch is the shoulder of the case. And you adjust this die for minimum shoulder bump to fit your chamber "WITHOUT" full length resizing the entire case. At the maximum military headspace of .074 you can have as much as .016 head clearance or air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face. And if you full length resize your cases they will have a very short lifespan due to the case stretching to meet the bolt face.
And remember when neck sizing only to grease the rear of your locking lugs to prevent wear.
It depends on how the brass fits the new chamber. If you can load an empty case and close the bolt then you won't need to resize. It'll fire form the old brass to the new chamber just fine.
If the bolt won't close due to the brass being too large you'll at least need to bump the shoulder back. Or it may need a full length resizing. It depends on if you feel a wedge like pressure from the slight taper in the main sidewall or if you hit a hard resistance that would be due to the shoulder.
If the bolt won't close due to the brass being too large you'll at least need to bump the shoulder back. Or it may need a full length resizing. It depends on if you feel a wedge like pressure from the slight taper in the main sidewall or if you hit a hard resistance that would be due to the shoulder.
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You will need to full length size for the initial firing in the new Enfield. Once the cases are fire formed to that chamber you can neck size. I like the Lee collet die for that application.
You will likely need to FL size after a few firings but by neck sizing you will extend the life of your brass.
You will likely need to FL size after a few firings but by neck sizing you will extend the life of your brass.
Am for the collet die as well. Get lots of reloads per case, as long as they weren't stretched too much on that important first firing. The 'O' ring trick takes care of that.
Carefully adjusted "partial FL sizing" does almost as well. Emphasis on "carefully adjusted".
If your 2'nd rifles chamber is more generous than the 1'st, those reloads may work. If not?, pull them down and resize to (barely) fit.
The idea is to use the shoulder, not rim, to headspace to min. tolerances.
Carefully adjusted "partial FL sizing" does almost as well. Emphasis on "carefully adjusted".
If your 2'nd rifles chamber is more generous than the 1'st, those reloads may work. If not?, pull them down and resize to (barely) fit.
The idea is to use the shoulder, not rim, to headspace to min. tolerances.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
This ^^^ There is a lot of confusion about "headspace" with the military 303 Enfield. The headspace that is checked with the gauges is measuring the distance between the bolt face and the seat on the rear of the barrel - that is the whole point of a rimmed cartridge - the rim holds the case for the firing pin to hit. So, with "headspace" in spec, there can be significant amounts of air between the cartridge body walls and shoulder, and the chamber - this was done a'purpose to allow the round to chamber even if muddy, sandy, frozen or whatever, and the point of the #### on close is to give maximum power to extract such a fired cartridge. There was absolutely zero thought or intent regarding "reloading". The design was to reliably chamber, fire and extract an "in-spec" ammo cartridge, once, then same with next one. When we chose to reload these cases, most have found that the brass lasts much longer with milder loads, that actually "headspace" on that front shoulder, rather than the rim. So, to OP's question - your brass has been fired. Set up your full length sizing die at least 1/4" off the shell holder. Size a cartridge - try it in your chamber. Chances are the body got squeezed and the shoulder was pushed forward slightly - should not chamber in your rifle. Turn dies down a 1/4 turn and try another one - you work down to get to point where fired brass just nicely fits chamber - lock your die ring and size all to this - they will be headspacing on the shoulder, not on the rim. Again, 303 headspace gauges do not check bolt face to the shoulder, as does 30-06, 308 Win, etc.
The chamber on the military Enfield rifle was enlarged in 1914 for two reasons.
1. To make room for the mud of Flanders fields, meaning the dirty muddy conditions of trench warfare.
2. There was a ammunition scandal going on at the same time about "politics" and "who" was awarded government contracts to make the ammunition for the military. The scandal was caused because some of the manufactures were making ammunition that didn't fit the Enfields chamber "before" the chamber was modified and inlarged.
There was a cover-up about this scandal and the British deflected it off on you Canadians and the Ross rifle as a scape goat.
So one more time, if the OPs reloaded cartridges fit his new chamber he does not have to do anything. If they do not fit due to headspace and the shoulder of the case is causing the problem the loaded cases can have the shoulder bumped back with the case forming die I mentioned before "without" unloading the ammunition.
I keep hearing the words "full length" resizing when the term "minimum" shoulder bump should be used. The Winchester case below was full length resized twice and if it have been fired again it would have had a case head separation. This same case stretched .011 after two firings and almost came apart and the headspace of this rifle was just under .067. If you are using commercial SAAMI cartridge cases they were never designed to be fired in a fat and long military chamber with resizing dies meant for shorter and skinnier chambers.
Below is what happens to civilian SAAMI .303 British case when fired in a British military chamber.
And the only way to make these cases last is by proper fire forming and letting these cases headspace on there shoulder so they can't stretch.
And it doesn't matter if the case was made to headspaces on the rim or belt, if you use the shoulder of the case and reduce the head clearance the case will not stretch when fired.
1. To make room for the mud of Flanders fields, meaning the dirty muddy conditions of trench warfare.
2. There was a ammunition scandal going on at the same time about "politics" and "who" was awarded government contracts to make the ammunition for the military. The scandal was caused because some of the manufactures were making ammunition that didn't fit the Enfields chamber "before" the chamber was modified and inlarged.
There was a cover-up about this scandal and the British deflected it off on you Canadians and the Ross rifle as a scape goat.
So one more time, if the OPs reloaded cartridges fit his new chamber he does not have to do anything. If they do not fit due to headspace and the shoulder of the case is causing the problem the loaded cases can have the shoulder bumped back with the case forming die I mentioned before "without" unloading the ammunition.
I keep hearing the words "full length" resizing when the term "minimum" shoulder bump should be used. The Winchester case below was full length resized twice and if it have been fired again it would have had a case head separation. This same case stretched .011 after two firings and almost came apart and the headspace of this rifle was just under .067. If you are using commercial SAAMI cartridge cases they were never designed to be fired in a fat and long military chamber with resizing dies meant for shorter and skinnier chambers.
Below is what happens to civilian SAAMI .303 British case when fired in a British military chamber.
And the only way to make these cases last is by proper fire forming and letting these cases headspace on there shoulder so they can't stretch.
And it doesn't matter if the case was made to headspaces on the rim or belt, if you use the shoulder of the case and reduce the head clearance the case will not stretch when fired.
