Full-length sizing, or neck sizing only?

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

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Hey guys, wondering if you'd be willing to explain this for me. All the brass I currently reload started it's life as Hornady factory ammo, all of it fired through my own .223 bolt-action rifle. In my first round of load testing, I ran the brass through my RCBS full-length sizing die, trimmed the cases to spec., de-burred inside/outside of the neck, cleaned the primer pocket..brushed-out the inside of the case, then load them up. No problem. Did all that again, got it shooting ridiculously small groups, and was able to repeat that kind of accuracy with subsequent reloads that all got the same treatment. Flash ahead to last week.

I was in my local shop buying more bullets, pricing more powder, wondering why it would take 3 months to get the CZ I want (another story) when I was telling the shop owner about how successful the reloading has been. We got chatting, and he asked why I was doing a FL case re-size when I should really be neck-sizing only. I'm new at this, but had read about it. I had him take apart a LEE neck sizing die to show me what it does. I was convinced, bought it, watched a YouTube video on how to set it up, and re-sized/de-capped about 6 cases last night...then stopped. For a few reasons.

1. On one of the 6 cases, it actually squished the brass above the line of the case neck by about 1/32" of an inch in one spot, less than 1/8" long. I took the die apart, polished it using a Scotchbright pad, cleaned it, applied a thin film of lithium grease, then reassembled it. That didn't happen again.

2. Based on the instructional video I watched, I started to doubt how tight I should be making the neck and it seemed like even a tiny adjustment in the die depth made a huge difference in the bullet fit.

3. I got to thinking how well the reloads (to date) have been shooting with the FL case sizing I've been doing, and wondered "why mess with it?" I recognize brass has a lifespan, and altering it as little as possible from an expansion/contraction point of view makes good sense.

So..I guess I got cold feet early-on with this neck-sizing stuff, but I figure it's better to get some info. before pressing-on without a little direction.

Looking forward to your replies.

Cheers.
 
Read this
Post # 20 has some good info
ht t p://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?72359-Do-I-need-to-buy-a-neck-sizing-die&highlight=adjustment+size+die+sizing

Also #24
 
For me, neck sizing only has two main advantages. Longer brass life and the biggest advantage is no need for lube! Neck sizing only speeds up the whole reloading process substantially when your not dealin with lube. Then you also get the added bonus of more consistent ammo.
 
It's NOT recommended to neck-size only when shooting a semi-auto, pump, or lever action repeaters.

Neck sizing IS recommended for bolt-action and single shot rifles.

The reason is twofold:

One-you've got brass perfectly formed to your gun's chamber, which aids in accuracy
Two-neck-sizing works the brass less, so it will last longer
 
The Lee collet dies can be a bit tricky to set up and use, I buggered up one in .308 by not lubing the collet and using too much pressure.

It sounds like you figured out the lube and set up problem. The next issue is to use enough pressure to force the neck tight on the mandrel without damaging the case, it takes a bit of trial and error and it does take a fair bit of force. Assuming you are using enough pressure to squeeze the case neck tight to the mandrel there isn't much else you can do to adjust the fit other than to take .001 -.002" off the mandrel. The .002" interference fit of the standard mandrel is less than most conventional dies but it is enough for most moderate recoiling rifles such as your .223. I use one in .223 as it came from the factory and am getting excellent results.

I will say that the Forster benchrest neck sizing die that I use for .308 is more straightforward to set up and use.
 
For starters, any new reloader starting out should full length resize everytime, at least until he gets the hang of it, and figures out for him/herself, whether or not neck sizing only would be appropriate.
Neck sizing only, on CGN, is a band wagon item. That is, one or two people talk about it, and everybody thinks they have to get on the band wagon, follow the sheep and neck size only.
A great number of bolt action rifles out there have very tight chambers. Some, and I own some, are so tight in the chamber that after several reloadings, when the brass gets harder, even full length resizing won't push the shoulder back enough for the bolt to close properly, and the cases need to be annealed.
For this type of chamber there is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, to neck size only.
If you fire a factory load in your rifle and there is a decided ring around the case above the base, indicating the case stretched on shooting, (headspace) then neck sizing only, will greatly extend case life.
Fire a factory loaded cartridge in your rifle and if there is no sign of a ring, or shiny area, above the base, then full length resize every time. You will not decrease the case life and you won't by one of those many people who post on here, stating their bolt won't close on their loaded round.
 
I reload for a bunch of rifles of different calibers and if I can I neck size only.
I find with most of my rifles they shoot better with neck sizing only.
Some of the chamber/ load combinations will allow me to neck size only indefinitely, other chamber/load combinations after a number of neck sizings need to be full length sized in order to chamber easily. More than not I am dissapointed when I shoot paper with the full length sized loads compared to what they will group with neck sizing only. This is however not always the case. Some rifles shoot neck sized and full length sized equally accurate.
I have a Sako Vixen in .223 that shoots half inch groups with full length sized brass but groups well over an inch with the same load in neck sized brass.
Like I said at the start, if I can I neck size only but neck sizing is not always the best choice.
One other thing I should add is I have never had any sort of mechanical issues with neck sizing, it has always been a slick, clean operation...This has been my experience with sizing brass, hope this helps.
 
Well said H4831 and Lastgun.

Years ago (even prior to coming here), I got on the neck sizing bandwagon and one of the questions that was always in the back of my mind was, "does it really make a difference in a factory chamber?" What I know now is, some yes, some no. Trouble is, I've always had trouble getting consistent and acceptable runout on my cases by neck sizing. Didn't matter (because I thought it would) whether I used a dedicated neck die or a FL die backed off. If I ever had really good accuracy, many times it was just a stroke of luck that I had several straight cases in a row. I had fallen victim to almost everything you read out there about neck sizing and accuracy, much of which is more predominantly beneficial in non mass-produced rifles with tighter chambers, shot by people with skills, goals, tools, and patience that many of us don't possess.

It wasn't until I refined my thinking and methods that things really changed in my handloading world. Once I finally learned how to set up dies properly, everything else started falling in line. For every one of my rifles (including one semi-auto), I have a maximum headspace measurement to which I size my cases .002 to .003 less. Some may argue that this is not really full length sizing but I've found no better way to control reliability, longevity, and in my experience, accuracy.

Be cautious about advice you receive but consider everything. The only way you can truly verify the validity of anything you've been told (beyond the common sense portion of it), is to experiment and figure out exactly what you and each of your rifles needs. Personally, if it shoots better with brass that's been fully resized, that's all I need and case life is secondary.

Rooster
 
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You are having good luck with f/l sizing so keep at it. Will it make a difference? Maybe but will it make all of your shots fall into one single bullet hole? Doubtful. I full length size for everything and dont have the problems posted on here(my bolt won't close and on and on). If it aint broke dont "fix" it
 
I tried my new Lee neck sizing die last its works pretty slick much faster than full neck sizing and no lube, as for better accuracy have not tried any of those .223's yet.Takes a little frigging to get the die right though.Like the other members said get used to full resizing and later try neck sizing.Good luck
 
Thanks for the detailed replies guys, VERY much appreciated. I think, for now, I'll stick with the F/L sizing. This rifle is a hunter, not a target gun..so the advantages of a little more speed in the reloading is lost on me. In fact, I'm disappointed that I don't have more brass to play with, in spite of the fact that I probably have 2x the amount of ammo loaded that I'll need all spring/summer! :) I'll hold onto the LEE die...but stick with my RCBS FL for now.

Thanks again!
 
I full length resized for my hunting rifles because I want them to feed / chamber as good as possible, but I only neck size all of my varminters.
 
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