Fume Bluing

sean69

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Looking to try some fume bluing, wondering if anyone here has done this before.... any pointers advise ?

also - does anyone have a source for Nitric Acid? apparently any type of acid is difficult to come by these days!! (well except muriatic...)

-thanks!
 
Make Nitric Acid - The Complete Guide - YouTube

▶#7:06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU

Jun 3, 2009 - Uploaded by NurdRage
We show 3 ways to make nitric acid based on two different chemical ... If you don't even know that muriatic ...

thanks for the link, interesting and "oh god no" .... making an acid of unknown concentration I think will certainly lead to inconsistent and unrepeatable results...

I have found it in 2.5L amounts, but I won't need anywhere near that amount nor do I wan't to spend $1200! - someone must have smaller amounts available.

Precious little on the construction of a sealed fuming cabinet as well... it appears that PVC or ABS can be user (I should really check which)

still digging.
 
If you can get a bottle of Pilkington's rust bluing formula he has a process for doing fume bluing in the instruction pamphlet.

thanks - seems pilkingtons can't ship across the border - tried looking for reference for the "pamphlet" but no its so far.

:(
 
Search ontario cleaning supply chemicals nitric
Places that make their own cleaners can have some nitric and sell it for a much better price than those scientific suppliers... who charge ridiculous insane prices for everything.
They may require u to have a biz license ... as ont have alot of meddlers/safety sallys
 
I have had a bottle of that for years, never opened it, I was going to do a old gun up I rebuilt, sold it before I refinished it.
No, sorry, You can't have it, I have other things I may do if I live long enough
If you can get a bottle of Pilkington's rust bluing formula he has a process for doing fume bluing in the instruction pamphlet.
 
pjsproducts.com/radocy.htm. Much faster and does a fantastic job.

I actually have a bottle of that and a butt plate that needs bluing ... will be testing it out soon, but it's not a 'fuming' product.


Search ontario cleaning supply chemicals nitric
Places that make their own cleaners can have some nitric and sell it for a much better price than those scientific suppliers... who charge ridiculous insane prices for everything.
They may require u to have a biz license ... as ont have alot of meddlers/safety sallys

Yes, you can find it in lower concentrations (and cheaper), the problem is getting it in the 86%+ category.
 
reagent grade should still be available for purchase ! Those places tend to buy it that way and dilute it to their needs ( which is kinda exciting as reagent grade does heat up when diluting)
Its too bad you dont live in halfax, Theres a couple places where ive bought it and it was cheap. They even sold hydrofluoric
I imagine hazmat n shipping would be alot $ from halifax ( besides they only sold it in a large jug/flask )

Iif you have some friends at university... sometimes a chem prof will lend you a small amount. (tend to be cranky but if u know them, it helps)
Its also used alot in metallurgical labs for etching(metallography)

do you have a write up of the bluing process? Ive used a lot of nitric in the past to etch steel samples but never required it to be reagent grade... it was diluted way down
 
T&G did scan and sent me the info on fume bluing ~ been meaning to post it here for all ...... this was run through a free internet OCR ~ so if there are spelling errors ... here it is:

Fume Bluing
Fume bluing is a variant of the previous method. All steps and all equipment remain the some except for the Rust Producing Step. In fume bluing, the rust is produced by fuming the gun parts in acid fumes. Boiling, Removal from Water, Carding and Repetition are followed exactly as above.

Materials.
Instead of the Classic American Rust Bluing Solution, the cotton fluff and the clothes pin you use the following:

1. Nitric Acid, Reagent Grade, 70% by weight.
2. Hydrochloric Acid, Reagent Grade, 37% by weight. Although these are common acids, and Reagent Grade the most common strength, an average pharmacy won't have them. Any high school chemistry lab class will. Any college or university chemistry lab will. In fact, these strengths are about all they will hove. Get o couple of ounces of each from one of these sources. The acids cost little. Use gloss bottles with plastic caps having a seal of polyethylene or polypropylene. Best for Nitric Acid is a bottle with a ground glass stopper, but they aren't too common any more. A chemistry lab might have one. CAU-TION: Do not allow acids to contact your skin or eyes, par-ticularly not your eyes. If contact occurs, flush the area with large amounts of water. If acid contacts the eyes, flush with water and call a doctor immediately. Do not swallow the acids. Nitric Acid is toxic. The antidote is to drink large quantities of water containing Milk of Mag-nesia or milk or soap and water. Then call a doctor. Do not breathe the vapors. In other words, use with adequate ventilation.

We would offer a Fume Bluing Kit containing the above acids. However, the impossibility of shipping the acids to .you prohibits this.

3. Several eyedroppers, purchased at a pharmacy.
4. Three or four glass or plastic dishes, 2" diameter, to hold drops of acids.
5. A fuming box to use to fume the gun parts. There are several possibilities.For small parts a plastic refrigerator storage box is good. There are a variety of sizes, com-monly found. For barrels, you need something larger. Minimum size is 4" x 4" x 36". The fastest way to obtain such a box (it must be either plastic or glass to resist the fumes) is to order one of the chemical tanks from either Frank Mittermeier or from page 142 of Catalog #34, Brow-nell's, Inc., Montezuma, Iowa 50171. The tank lacks a lid. Make a lid from a piece of utility grade, clear 1/8" acrylic sheet, from any plastics store. Place over the box and weight for a nearly air-tight seal. This way, you can watch the bluing action. Not as professional as this, but serv-iceable, inexpensive and made from readily obtainable materials is a long cardboard box, lined with a sheet of clear polyethylene, the type sold to cover windows in win-ter months. Tape any seams with plastic tape. For a clear top, use acrylic sheet or a piece of the polyethylene sheet, mounted on a frame.
6. Plugs to seal the ends of rifle and shotgun bores. These should be neoprene or polyethylene. However, common corks do well, even though made of natural material. Too much wood or cork present in the box preferentially absorbs all the fumes, stopping the bluing action.

Rust Producing Step with Fume Bluing.

Place the pro-perly polished and cleaned metal parts into the fuming box. Handle using gloves. Plastic holding fixtures, to hold the parts off the bottom of the box, would be appropriate. Make sure that the bores are plugged. Place the glass or plastic dishes in the bottom of the box, three in the long box and one in the small box. Using on eyedropper, add one or two drops of Reagent Grade Hydrochloric Acid to each dish. Then quickly add double that amount of Rea-gent Grade Nitric Acid to each dish. Use another dropper for this. Quickly cover the box. Wait three k then quickly remove the parts from the box, recoveriri the box quickly. Unplug the bores and go on with the bpi? ing and carding steps.
Please note that you must first determine the number of drops of acid to use. This depends upon the size of -- Your fuming box and the temperature and humidity of Your lo-cality. For best results fume bluing must be done at a temperature above 75°F. Gas phase reactions are very temperature sensitive. If done properly, after about twenty minutes in the box a layer of black "velvet" grows on the metal surface. At high humidities the color may be brown. With a new soft plastic box a short break-in period may be required. The plastic needs to become saturated with the fumes to work well. At the end of three hours the sur-face coating is uniform. Too little acid, and you see little reaction. Too much, and the coating grows to an extreme, attracts water vapor from the air, which condenses on the surface, making it very wet, and in some cases giving it a greenish color. EXperiment first with a small piece of scrap metal to determine the number of acid drops.

Finally, I suggest that you do not add additional drops of acid to the dishes during the repetition steps. If you act quickly in removing the parts from the box, these heavy gases leave the box very little. The little which escapes reduces the fume concentration. This improves the quality of the finished blue. Like the Classic American Rust Bluing Solution, the fumes cause the rust to form, but the fumes are also a blue remover. Lessening the fume concentration with each repetition helps to preserve the blue already on the surface, while adding to it.

CAUTION: Although the acid fumes are in low concen-tration in the box, such fumes are toxic. So use this process with due caution and in a well ventilated area. The resulting fume blue is finer grained than that produced by the Classic solution. It is both beautiful and durable.


I think it's interesting that the fume concentration needs to be reduced on subsequent cycles. A temperature and humidity controlled box as well as more accurate measurement than 'drops' would certainly make the process more repeatable & consistent.
 
Thank your for posting the scan of instructions. Is fume bluing preferred over standard liquid rust bluing because it's less susceptible to application irregularities like drips or streaking? When I've done rust bluing using liquids and a cotton ball, I've found the first couple of recoats to require a very light touch to avoid removing the thin coloring laid down by the previous coat. As the steps progress, I don't have to be nearly as careful.

Controlling the humidity is very important. I remember my early attempts were sometimes ruined by having too much humidity (trying to hasten the rusting) and having condensation form --- that created the green hue amongst other colours, and also a courser surface finish.
 
Thank your for posting the scan of instructions. Is fume bluing preferred over standard liquid rust bluing because it's less susceptible to application irregularities like drips or streaking? When I've done rust bluing using liquids and a cotton ball, I've found the first couple of recoats to require a very light touch to avoid removing the thin coloring laid down by the previous coat. As the steps progress, I don't have to be nearly as careful.

don't know about "preferred" seems like (almost) no one is doing it ... hard to get any information. But yes, from what I have found you *should* get a more even application and somewhat faster as well - 3 hour cycles vs. 12-24. that and this particular article mentions a finer grain which should equate to harder & more durable. ~ How much finer ??? no idea.




Controlling the humidity is very important. I remember my early attempts were sometimes ruined by having too much humidity (trying to hasten the rusting) and having condensation form --- that created the green hue amongst other colours, and also a courser surface finish.

finding temperature and humidity monitors/probes/etc that won't be attached by the acids will be challenging.
 
Will the muriatic acid not work then?

I have a couple large bottles of this stuff in my pool shed and even though the plastic jugs the stuff comes in are closed, the bare metal stuff in the direct area has a suspicious amount of rust on it :(

Also dumped some of it in the basement toilet to descale it. Planned to let it soak for only a few hours but
then forgot to flush it. So when I got down there a few days later the brushed metal garbage can next to the toilet was all brown...
 
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Will the muriatic acid not work then?

I have a couple large bottles of this stuff in my pool shed and even though the plastic jugs the stuff comes in are closed, the bare metal stuff in the direct area has a suspicious amount of rust on it :(

Also dumped some of it in the basement toilet to descale it. Planned to let it soak for only a few hours but
then forgot to flush it. So when I got down there a few days later the brushed metal garbage can next to the toilet was all brown...

I don't see why not, my assumption is that the acid fumes just break down the surface of the metal allowing oxidization to start faster. My guess is that it's not been mentioned in anything I have read because either:
a. it's not traditional
b. different acids break up the surface differently, perhaps some create a finer grain??

I don't know, but it may be worth experimenting with.
 
Tried some 'express bluing' last night - not bad at all, could still use a little work, but not bad !

bluing-001.jpg



bluing-002.jpg
 
I don't see why not, my assumption is that the acid fumes just break down the surface of the metal allowing oxidization to start faster. My guess is that it's not been mentioned in anything I have read because either:
a. it's not traditional
b. different acids break up the surface differently, perhaps some create a finer grain??

I don't know, but it may be worth experimenting with.

I'd also read that it is important to use reagant grade acids. Some of the industrial grade acids (in particular, muriatic) can contain impurities that might affect the finish -- in this case, the reagant grade of muriatic acid would be hydrochloric acid.

Addendum: just thinking about this, I suspect the issue with muriatic acid's impurities may have been with regards to liquid rust blueing rather than fume rust bluing. For the later, the impurities are probably heavy enough to remain in solution.
 
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I'd also read that it is important to use reagant grade acids. Some of the industrial grade acids (in particular, muriatic) can contain impurities that might affect the finish -- in this case, the reagant grade of muriatic acid would be hydrochloric acid.

Addendum: just thinking about this, I suspect the issue with muriatic acid's impurities may have been with regards to liquid rust blueing rather than fume rust bluing. For the later, the impurities are probably heavy enough to remain in solution.

Interesting that the reagent grade is hydrochloric, most things I have read mix nitric & hydrochloric with no mention of why. I came across something (somewhere) that was saying mixing hydrochloric with nitric refines the nitric into reagent grade. So that is causing me some confusion over why the pilkington's is suggesting using both acids in reagent grades..... why not just use 86% nitric??
 
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