Fussy rifle, need reassurance

trapoholic

trapoholic

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So I've got 50 rounds loaded in brand spankin new brass. The rest is copy and pasted from my other thread. I just need some help, clarification and reassurance! H4350 still gives me nightmares...

Will a case shoot to the same poi after I've reloaded the fired brass for the first time? My 280 does, but my 30-06 has been such a fuss to reload for until I found R-16 that honestly... I'm weary as hell of any change whatsoever at this point in time. I mean I got a really awesome shooting load worked up for the new brass, I just don't wanna load up the once fired and try it then run into a major poi or overall accuracy change and have to go back to the drawing board.

Yes, after all the trouble and time I went through with H4350 I'm THAT worried about loading a once fired case with the exact specs that it was loaded with as a virgin case. How many loads could I get out of it before it gives up accuracy?
 
If you neck size, anneal cases you will get Quite a few reloads but probably blow the primer pockets out before he brass lets go.
Just shoot and see, the once fired and nck sized will be closer to chamber dimensions and should be equal if not better.
Hope you are not cleaning after your session of getting a good group because a clean bore will not go to same POI.
 
220 said:
If you neck size, anneal cases you will get Quite a few reloads but probably blow the primer pockets out before he brass lets go.
Just shoot and see, the once fired and nck sized will be closer to chamber dimensions and should be equal if not better.
Hope you are not cleaning after your session of getting a good group because a clean bore will not go to same POI.
Click to expand...

I don't have a neck sizing die or annealing machine. It's also a pump rifle, everything I've read says to full length size them. I definitely don't clean after every session and I shoot the dink outta that gun when I do take it out. R-16 has given me awesome groups with new, never fired Remington brass and 180 grain Hornady interlock round nose. H4350 was all over the damn place with any charge, bullet, brass and primer combo I tried. Was it the powder lot? Or does my gun just not like it?

I tried H4831 in my 280 pump and found epicness right on the first set I loaded for it. Guess I got lucky.
 
Fired brass might shoot a little different. You can tweak powder charge. Just FL size and don’t overdo it on the shoulder bump.

I think brass already fired in your rifle is a little more accurate.
 
Every rifle is a different beast and will require experimenting with various powders, bullets, primers and cases, and even seating depth to find the load that each one prefers. Even rifles built consecutively by any given manufacturer are not guaranteed to perform the same or shoot the same loads equally well.
Ensuring that your loads in once fired brass shoot to same poi as in new brass will also require testing. Normally, since less energy is expended in fireforming the brass to the chamber dimensions of your bolt action rifle by neck sizing once fired brass, it will produce slightly better velocity due to more energy being used efficiently to produce velocity. But as mentioned above, it is best to full length size your brass every time for your pump action.
Many experienced handloaders will only use virgin brass for hunting loads, and use once fired brass (or brass reloaded several times) for practice loads.This will alleviate your concern about any potential poi shift with your handloads prior to hunting after sighting in with fresh loads in new brass.
Nosler brass has been getting a good reputation for numerous reloadings without annealing. May be more expensive than some other brands, but with longer life (read ability to reload more without annealing) reduces costs. The fact that it is prepped also saves time when loading, another benefit.
While your pump action rifle may be pretty accurate, they are not typically known for stellar accuracy, and you may not see any measurable degradation in accuracy before your primer pockets loosen up or your brass stretches too thin and cases split (since you are not annealing). Shouldn't be a big concern here, unless you are pushing too many reloads out of your brass or running loads too hot.
I usually do not reload brass more than 3 to 5 times, depending on make. I know my reloading mentor is getting up to 10 reloads with Nosler brass without problems, but he too stays well within reloading data supplied by manuals and QuickLoad.
 
Barrel twist / velocity / bullet length, shape Play a big roll in how a rifle shoots.... and if you get a borderline combination .. it will work great one day and bad the next when one of the varables change

for instance 308 have been made in 10,11, 12, 13, 14 twist ... 10-11-12 more common for hunting rifles .... 12,13,14 for custom rigs ...
I have a 13 twist 308 that will not shoot the new vld bullets .... Too long for the twist but will shoot a 178g with the right velocity

in 30-06 and the same twist but the 10 twist is more common
 
With round nose core lokts I could touch all 5 shots every time. But they always came from new brass right? Maybe it just prefers new brass? I don't know, this gun is picky. Doesn't like anything lighter than a 180 grain either.
 
Your posting is a bit confusing about what you are asking.

If you fire factory ammo first and then reload the brass, are you asking if it will shoot to the same place? NO. because the reload is different ammo.

If you are asking about re-loaded ammo, and ask if it shoots the same place on the first, second and third reload- yes, if it is FL sized each time.
 
trapoholic said:
I don't have a neck sizing die or annealing machine. It's also a pump rifle, everything I've read says to full length size them. I definitely don't clean after every session and I shoot the dink outta that gun when I do take it out. R-16 has given me awesome groups with new, never fired Remington brass and 180 grain Hornady interlock round nose. H4350 was all over the damn place with any charge, bullet, brass and primer combo I tried. Was it the powder lot? Or does my gun just not like it?

I tried H4831 in my 280 pump and found epicness right on the first set I loaded for it. Guess I got lucky.
Click to expand...

annealing machine? I just use a drill with a socket adapter and a propane torch once they reach the right color I dump them in a container of water
 
Ganderite said:
Your posting is a bit confusing about what you are asking.

If you fire factory ammo first and then reload the brass, are you asking if it will shoot to the same place? NO. because the reload is different ammo.

If you are asking about re-loaded ammo, and ask if it shoots the same place on the first, second and third reload- yes, if it is FL sized each time.
Click to expand...

I bought 100 new Remington brass. Found a recipe that shoots stupid accurate. But I'm worried that if I reload the brass that I've already fired finding this recipe the accuracy will take a dump or the poi will change. Cause I tried forever to find a good load and spent ALOT of money trying to work one up with H4350 and just couldn't find anything even close to acceptable. Now I'm just gun shy so to speak about changing anything at all. I got a good thing goin with the new brass, I'm afraid something is gonna go to hell again trying to reload the fired brass for the first time.
 
trapoholic said:
I bought 100 new Remington brass. Found a recipe that shoots stupid accurate. But I'm worried that if I reload the brass that I've already fired finding this recipe the accuracy will take a dump or the poi will change. Cause I tried forever to find a good load and spent ALOT of money trying to work one up with H4350 and just couldn't find anything even close to acceptable. Now I'm just gun shy so to speak about changing anything at all. I got a good thing goin with the new brass, I'm afraid something is gonna go to hell again trying to reload the fired brass for the first time.
Click to expand...

Have you actually FL sized the fired brass and tried the load? You don't need to load 20 rounds, just six will do to check. Fire two 3-shot groups and see how it performs. You also mention it seems to like heavier bullets. Have you tried some 180gr Hornady SP? I have used them in various rounds over the years (.30-06, 300 Win, 300 Wby) and have always been very consistent and provided good accuracy.
 
trapoholic said:
I bought 100 new Remington brass. Found a recipe that shoots stupid accurate. But I'm worried that if I reload the brass that I've already fired finding this recipe the accuracy will take a dump or the poi will change. Cause I tried forever to find a good load and spent ALOT of money trying to work one up with H4350 and just couldn't find anything even close to acceptable. Now I'm just gun shy so to speak about changing anything at all. I got a good thing goin with the new brass, I'm afraid something is gonna go to hell again trying to reload the fired brass for the first time.
Click to expand...

Your new brass was something like FL sized. So if you FL size the fired brass it will be very similar in performance.
 
That's the nature of the beast unfortunately when it comes to reloading. Sometimes it will work out quickly other times it will take some time and money. The only way to find out is to try the new brass. If you get to the point where it's more frustrating than rewarding then you might want to rethink the reloading idea. I think most who reload on here have run into similar situations at one point or another. I have myself multiple times.
Don't forget it's a hunting rifle. If your getting decent groups that will hold in the vitals and enact a humane kill at the ranges you are comfortable shooting at then go with the load that works. The is good advice in the above posts.
Good luck.
 
8x68 said:
That's the nature of the beast unfortunately when it comes to reloading. Sometimes it will work out quickly other times it will take some time and money. The only way to find out is to try the new brass. If you get to the point where it's more frustrating than rewarding then you might want to rethink the reloading idea. I think most who reload on here have run into similar situations at one point or another. I have myself multiple times.
Don't forget it's a hunting rifle. If your getting decent groups that will hold in the vitals and enact a humane kill at the ranges you are comfortable shooting at then go with the load that works. The is good advice in the above posts.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Experimenting with different components is a huge part of getting a good load.
 
skidderman said:
One word. Reloader 22 for 30-06 and 180 grain pill. Have not seen a 30-06 that didn't like this load yet.
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5 words but I gotcha! I started using reloder 16 at the advice of another gunnut. Night n day difference compared to H4350. With new Remington brass from the bag (sized and flash holes deburred) I can put them into one hole with the scope on over 55 grains of powder, federal gold medal match 210 primer and hornady 180 grain round nose interlock (got to use em on 2 deer and a bear this year they hit like freight trains) I only use scopes for load development though, after that depending on the gun either peeps or open sights go back on after I k ow what the load is capable of. I can get a 1/4" easily with the peep sights. Interesting thing is, first couple shots from the cold barrel are at times 3/4" from the rest of the group, this normal? It bothers me but I've heard it's a thing a few times. Once it's warmed up I could shoot a box away and make a ragged hole.

8x68 said:
That's the nature of the beast unfortunately when it comes to reloading. Sometimes it will work out quickly other times it will take some time and money. The only way to find out is to try the new brass. If you get to the point where it's more frustrating than rewarding then you might want to rethink the reloading idea. I think most who reload on here have run into similar situations at one point or another. I have myself multiple times.
Don't forget it's a hunting rifle. If your getting decent groups that will hold in the vitals and enact a humane kill at the ranges you are comfortable shooting at then go with the load that works. The is good advice in the above posts.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Like I said, all the once fired is prepped and ready to be loaded now... I'm just a little apprehensive after the H4350 fiasco to change anything knowing brand knew brass works perfect with R-16 with the recipe I have made up. I've got myself worked up thinkin since it's been fired once all that time, money and work to find "the one" with the new brass will go out the window on it's second loading, know what I mean? Like it's gonna shoot all over hells half acre and send me to the loony bin even though the only thing that's changed is it's been fired, now it's been resized and loaded up for the first time since being fired
 
You seem to have impressive abilities as well as eyesight, along with a very accurate rifle.

Shooting a barrel until it's hot, to determine accuracy is not advised for hunting rifles. Not because your damaging anything but most barrels will change their harmonics with temperature changes.

Same goes for freshly cleaned barrels, most of them don't shoot to point of aim on the first shot from a freshly cleaned barrel. Some require 3-4 fouling shots to settle in.

Once that's happened, the barrel should be allowed to cool to ambient temperatures between shots when sighted in. After all, that will be the condition your rifle will be used under when hunting.
 
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