I am curious as to the future of the availability of milsurps. What I am getting at is that TEC, Marstar and others have brought into Canada some very interesting surplus rifles and ammunition. I am wondering what the future holds for more of these rifles or that we have pretty well seen the last of what is available around the world. What are your thoughts on this?
Future of Milsurp Availability
- Thread starter LocknLoad
- Start date
They are still rolling the stones back from caves full of things like late 1800s vintage Martinis in Nepal. I think one of the biggest impacts on availability will be the UN interference in the surplus small arms trade. Shopping around to equip a terrorist army is a lot different than selling to legitimate collectors, but the UN agenda can't seem to be able to make this distinction.There is still a lot of stuff out there.
Actually, I think some of the old girls are starting to come out of closet. As I am starting to see what were some of the rarer pieces 10 years ago starting to come up for sale. And the internet is the best/ worst thing to happen for a collector in a very longtime. Even 20 years ago I would have never dreamed of the resources available online to track history of specific guns. The common milsurps will always be around but as some of the serious collectors get older those collections will go up for sale, with fewer of us actually appreciating & respecting what they had; the opportunity to own some of these is probably more possible now then ever before.
- Location
- Smithers, B.C.
I agree with Danceswithempties, alot of older collectors are passing on, and few of their successive generations want anything to do with firearms. As such, they go up for sale and for reasonable prices, especially estate sales. This gives young folks like myself the chance to collect what was once thought extinct, and to carry it forward into the future. Let us just hope our government sees this. I would rather they ban the car than the gun, since almost everyone has a car and they cause more death per year than almost any other cause in North America.
- Location
- Smithers, B.C.
Mmm. What I mean is for people who have less than 300 bucks to spend Andy, somehow, one manages to find deals with people, and sometimes, if you go looking for the rifles that are a tad beat up, a little pitted, a bit greasy or dark, you can often strike pure gold.
Prices are relative. 40 yrs ago $500 a month was a fairly decent salary and nice bolt actions, like a Lee Enfield, M1917,or M1903 Springfield could be had for $40, or maybe 10-15% of a month's pay. Garands would go for $80 or so and I recall buying a CNo7 (even scarce then) for the same price. I bought a stone mint M1 Carbine from SIR back in 1965 for $75. So if a top line No4 LE sells for $450-$500 today, one is still getting a fairly good bargoon.
It is interesting to see that 4" bbl P08 Lugers have still kept their value in spite of the diminishing numbers of folks who have that endorsement on their PAL.
I'm still kicking my a$$ for not buying a mint 03A4 Springfield c/w scope that was available for $100 back in 1968. But hey, I was making $450 a month as an LT and had other priorities at the time, like my bar bill and chasing quim.
I did get a nice 03A4 about 38 yrs later, for about $2000 all in with scope- still not a bad price relative to one's present income.
It is interesting to see that 4" bbl P08 Lugers have still kept their value in spite of the diminishing numbers of folks who have that endorsement on their PAL.
I'm still kicking my a$$ for not buying a mint 03A4 Springfield c/w scope that was available for $100 back in 1968. But hey, I was making $450 a month as an LT and had other priorities at the time, like my bar bill and chasing quim.
I did get a nice 03A4 about 38 yrs later, for about $2000 all in with scope- still not a bad price relative to one's present income.I guess the big variables will be whatever is stored in Russia and China. Should be a crapload of German and Japanese stuff still sitting around in warehouses waiting for the next war. Will the UN convince them to smelt it all ? Time will tell.
Thanks, purple, for pointing out the differences in wages/prices then/now.
Yes, racks of SAFN-49s in 7.65mm, $65 unfired. Kar 43s, $65. Saw a BORCHARDT at $1,000, was offered it for 750. Not much hope: I was making $227 a month gross, working 40 a week for CP Air. The authority to delay an international flight, at a cost of $2000 an hour, was worth $1.27 an hour. Folks don't understand that part.
At least the coins sounded nice when you dropped them.
What I am hoping for is stuff coming out of some of the really out-of-the-way places. STILL lots of treasures in Chile; they can't possibly want them all for their Museo.
China, where Jimmie Lee sold all those Remington Rolling Blocks.... and 30,000 .43-calibre blackpowder LEE rifles, none of which seem ever to have shown up. Can't ALL have gone for scrap.
And the FIRST shipment of Mexican Arisakas, the ones that never got paid for.... still out there, somewhere.
Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, where the Order of Battle showed Schwarzloses still in active service into the 1970s.
Lotsa stuff.
Just gotta dig it out and hope the freakin' UN can be made to understand that there is a difference between a museum-piece and a revolution. I am starting to think more and more that getting rid of the UN could be a good thing: an international authority, responsible TO no-one, ordering everybody around, demanding ever more from the 'rich' while its own halls teem with very damn rich people representing very damn poor countries which would be rich countries if the few very rich peoiple were out of power for a month.
Oh well..... who cares?
I care.
I want one of those .43-calibre LEE rifles!
AND my very own Schwarzlose!
Yes, racks of SAFN-49s in 7.65mm, $65 unfired. Kar 43s, $65. Saw a BORCHARDT at $1,000, was offered it for 750. Not much hope: I was making $227 a month gross, working 40 a week for CP Air. The authority to delay an international flight, at a cost of $2000 an hour, was worth $1.27 an hour. Folks don't understand that part.
At least the coins sounded nice when you dropped them.
What I am hoping for is stuff coming out of some of the really out-of-the-way places. STILL lots of treasures in Chile; they can't possibly want them all for their Museo.
China, where Jimmie Lee sold all those Remington Rolling Blocks.... and 30,000 .43-calibre blackpowder LEE rifles, none of which seem ever to have shown up. Can't ALL have gone for scrap.
And the FIRST shipment of Mexican Arisakas, the ones that never got paid for.... still out there, somewhere.
Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, where the Order of Battle showed Schwarzloses still in active service into the 1970s.
Lotsa stuff.
Just gotta dig it out and hope the freakin' UN can be made to understand that there is a difference between a museum-piece and a revolution. I am starting to think more and more that getting rid of the UN could be a good thing: an international authority, responsible TO no-one, ordering everybody around, demanding ever more from the 'rich' while its own halls teem with very damn rich people representing very damn poor countries which would be rich countries if the few very rich peoiple were out of power for a month.
Oh well..... who cares?
I care.
I want one of those .43-calibre LEE rifles!
AND my very own Schwarzlose!
#1bcshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- North Of The DMZ (US border)
I'm sure you all know what UN stands for
Unarmed Nations
Unarmed Nations
- Location
- Smithers, B.C.
Hey, prices back when were dandy, but some of us weren't born back in the 40's and 50's. We who are born in the late 80's are cringing at the prices. Comparative or not, handing over 500 bucks is STILL handing over alot of money. Imagine if it was singles like back in the day? *chuckles*
Well the keys to amassing a bunch of high grade MILSURPs still have'nt changed. It takes a lot of spare money and a long and healthful life. Here are a few tips in no particular order:
-get a good education/training to equip yourself with marketable job skills
-work hard and show willingness to adapt and learn and maintain a positive and co-operative attitude in the workplace
-be reliable. Show up on time and do what you are paid to do-and a bit more
-don't personalize your workplace dealings and don't count on litigation or union membership to get you ahead
-don't smoke,do drugs,or waste your health and money on booze and gambling
-avoid women with a bipolar condition or other types of personality disorders-no matter how beguiling their eyes are or how nice their T&A are
-destroy all credit cards but one and pay it off every month
-minimize the consumption of fast "foods" in places like Booger King or MacDildoes
. Eat wild meat instead
-avoid talking on a cellphone when walking or driving
-always keep a good set of tires on your vehicle and check your lug nuts periodically-cheapest insurance there is
-stay physically active
-pay your income and property taxes
-avoid living in major urban centers like Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal
-save some money and stay out of debt
-get regular dental and physical check-ups and always carry a condom in your wallet in case you get lucky and need to protect your bore in a storm
-practice safe reloading techniques and always consult a current manual when in doubt
-maintain a sense of humour and don't take yourself too seriously,because others will not
-buy a house early in life and pay down the mortgage. If you rent you are paying somebody else's mortgage
Lastly, do not rely on the internet too much. Most of what you read there is,well,
Here are a few tips in no particular order:-get a good education/training to equip yourself with marketable job skills
-work hard and show willingness to adapt and learn and maintain a positive and co-operative attitude in the workplace
-be reliable. Show up on time and do what you are paid to do-and a bit more
-don't personalize your workplace dealings and don't count on litigation or union membership to get you ahead
-don't smoke,do drugs,or waste your health and money on booze and gambling
-avoid women with a bipolar condition or other types of personality disorders-no matter how beguiling their eyes are or how nice their T&A are
-destroy all credit cards but one and pay it off every month
-minimize the consumption of fast "foods" in places like Booger King or MacDildoes
. Eat wild meat instead -avoid talking on a cellphone when walking or driving
-always keep a good set of tires on your vehicle and check your lug nuts periodically-cheapest insurance there is
-stay physically active
-pay your income and property taxes
-avoid living in major urban centers like Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal
-save some money and stay out of debt
-get regular dental and physical check-ups and always carry a condom in your wallet in case you get lucky and need to protect your bore in a storm
-practice safe reloading techniques and always consult a current manual when in doubt
-maintain a sense of humour and don't take yourself too seriously,because others will not
-buy a house early in life and pay down the mortgage.
If you rent you are paying somebody else's mortgageLastly, do not rely on the internet too much. Most of what you read there is,well,
Well the keys to amassing a bunch of high grade MILSURPs still have'nt changed. It takes a lot of spare money and a long and healthful life.
-get a good education/training to equip yourself with marketable job skills
-work hard and show willingness to adapt and learn and maintain a positive and co-operative attitude in the workplace
-be reliable. Show up on time and do what you are paid to do-and a bit more
-don't personalize your workplace dealings and don't count on litigation or union membership to get you ahead
-don't smoke,do drugs,or waste your health and money on booze and gambling
-avoid women with a bipolar condition or other types of personality disorders-no matter how beguiling their eyes are or how nice their T&A are
-destroy all credit cards but one and pay it off every month
-minimize the consumption of fast "foods" in places like Booger King or MacDildoes
-avoid talking on a cellphone when walking or driving
-always keep a good set of tires on your vehicle and check your lug nuts periodically-cheapest insurance there is
-stay physically active
-pay your income and property taxes
-avoid living in major urban centers like Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal
-save some money and stay out of debt
-get regular dental and physical check-ups and always carry a condom in your wallet in case you get lucky and need to protect your bore in a storm
-practice safe reloading techniques and always consult a current manual when in doubt
-maintain a sense of humour and don't take yourself too seriously,because others will not
-buy a house early in life and pay down the mortgage.
Lastly, do not rely on the internet too much. Most of what you read there is,well,
purple, come back!
You forgot your diploma from cyclone's school of smilies......
drach, we cringed at the prices of milsurps in the late 60s and then all the way through, up to now. It's all relative to the wages of the time. Some things, like US Property marked 1911 Colts, have gone through the roof. You have to understand, a lot of the surplus rifles sold in early years were in "fair" only condition. There was a reason for them to be cheap. The excellent stuff, was always pricey.
Quality has NEVER come cheap.
My first Milsurp was a "Italian 70VV Sniper Rifle" with a "genuine spaghetti-grain stock" from Hunter's Lodge USA, actually shipped from Albion in Peterborough. Eleven silver dollars, three silver quarters, two silver dimes, two copper cents, none of which are made today. I made two silver quarters and a nickel each and every hour of my all-night shift at the truck-stop (between driving staff back and forth to work in the '34 Ford which I still have). It was expensive when looked at like that: more than half a week's gross pay.
It arrived with a bent barrel and otherwise looked as if the entire Italian Army had retreated over top of it, then handed it to the Ethiopians for more of the same. I called in a favour and the barrel was straightened by old Ernie Symons Himself, one of the finest machinists who ever lived in Western Canada.
I still have that rifle.
It MIGHT be 'worth' 300 loons, each and every one made from stamped sheet-steel and buying perhaps 8 minutes of labour at minimum wage today.
But that was the start of my 'collection', which still resembles more than anything else, the Bulgarian Army's junk bin back about 1922.
But I'm having fun.
And THAT is what it's all about.
My first Milsurp was a "Italian 70VV Sniper Rifle" with a "genuine spaghetti-grain stock" from Hunter's Lodge USA, actually shipped from Albion in Peterborough. Eleven silver dollars, three silver quarters, two silver dimes, two copper cents, none of which are made today. I made two silver quarters and a nickel each and every hour of my all-night shift at the truck-stop (between driving staff back and forth to work in the '34 Ford which I still have). It was expensive when looked at like that: more than half a week's gross pay.
It arrived with a bent barrel and otherwise looked as if the entire Italian Army had retreated over top of it, then handed it to the Ethiopians for more of the same. I called in a favour and the barrel was straightened by old Ernie Symons Himself, one of the finest machinists who ever lived in Western Canada.
I still have that rifle.
It MIGHT be 'worth' 300 loons, each and every one made from stamped sheet-steel and buying perhaps 8 minutes of labour at minimum wage today.
But that was the start of my 'collection', which still resembles more than anything else, the Bulgarian Army's junk bin back about 1922.
But I'm having fun.
And THAT is what it's all about.
Last edited:
- Location
- Smithers, B.C.
Smellie, you do put it quite plainly. My rifles are little to gape at, but to me, they are meaningful, I still have my first real rifle (I bought an RC Mauser and sold to a good friend a long time ago), a No.5 Mk.I 1944 Lee Enfield. It shoots straight as an arrow, easily hitting a pieplate on irons for me. It is the one rifle, of all, I will keep my entire life if I can. I agree, it is what you have and what you do with it that matters, and I have found my collecting niche. The one thing I never liked is how some people can in good concience sell a firearm to you that just does not work or worse, for much more than it's worth (I paid about 500 dollars for a banged up Swiss K31, literally just before that huge shipment came in and they all went up for 350 including rounds and bayonets.) Well, it's a learning experience, and one I hope to pass on. Cheers, good shooting all
I have heard from a few places that along with the "Russian Capture" K98s, and stockpiles of surplus Mosins, SVTs, TTs and M1895s, the Russians have stockpiles of catpured G/K 43s. Sure hope they one day see the light of the Canadian Market. Id snatch up a RC G43 in a minute! - price depending...
