G19

richardoldfield said:
The Canuck, since none of your countrymen would provide the image your American cousin will try:) Regards, Richard:)

My G17 and G19:
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My G17, G19, and G27:
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Thanks Richard.

Would you see a big problem by carrying a G17 over a G19? There really isnt much size difference
 
The Canuck, If the only Glock I owned was a G17, I would gladly carry it. A G17 is a larger pistol and I would order a UNS holster from Ken L. Null for it. Why, Ken L. Null? He is a master at holsters; the best acknowledge Ken knows his business. Ken isn't cheap but he does the work in a hurry. Ken's web site is: http://www.klnullholsters.com/ Regards, Richard:)
 
ghostie said:
The half inch off the front is easy to engineer. The slide, the barrel and the frame are all just that much shorter. A G19 in the U.S. is 102mm (4 inch). A G17 is 114mm (4.49 inch). In Cananda, for legal reasons, we have to tack a extra 4mm onto our 4 inch guns so that they are longer than 105mm - hence the 106mm Bar-sto barrels.

Taking a half inch off the bottom of the grip is a bit more tricky.
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This is basically the silliest thing I've read in weeks.

G19 internals != G17 internals, because of the engineering challenges of shortening the slide. THE HARD PART.

Shortening the grip? Do it with a hacksaw. THE EASY PART.
 
the g19 is an obvious crowd favorite. I personally love the feel of the shorter grip. That is a true carry gun. For some reason the g23 doesn't appeal to me as much. I know they are physically the same...
 
Bartledan said:
This is basically the silliest thing I've read in weeks.

G19 internals != G17 internals, because of the engineering challenges of shortening the slide. THE HARD PART.

Shortening the grip? Do it with a hacksaw. THE EASY PART.
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Glock17_19.jpg

The slide, barrel and the front of the frame are all a half inch shorter. The barrel lug and locking block are slightly different. Rearward of the breechface, the guns are identical. I would call these changes the easy part.

The U.S. Gun Control Act of 1968 uses a "generally accepted for sporting purposes" test and a points system to exclude many small, inexpensive handguns from being imported into the United States. Points are awarded for things which are supposedly more "target" or "sporting" in nature. The reason Glocks have finger grooves and a thumb rest is because of this legislation. To make a Glock grip that is half an inch shorter, still fit the average shooter's hand, and still have the point-getting finger grooves needed for import requires a total redesign of the grip. Comparatively, I would call this the hard part.
 
My three favorite semi-auto pistols of all time for my med sized hands, and in no order are:

Glock 19
1911 commander
SIG P229
 
ghostieThe slide said:
Yes, I agree. Your ignorance would lead to to incorrectly call those changes the easy part.

I cringe at having to explain this:

There is an engineered balance between the position of the feed ramp for reliable feeding, and the position of the rear of the spring to ensure the spring is not collapsed during recoil.

Inside this space, a locking block and barrel lugs must be arranged such that geometric constraints (space) dynamic constriants (sufficient space for the barrel to move straight back before it begins to fall in unlocking to permit time for the bullet to leave the barrel), and strength constraints (the locking block must not break, therefore it must have a certain amount of material in it.)

Once you have designed one gun, say, the G17, you have done a mass of careful calculation and design woork. In order to change these geometric, dynamic, and strength relationships while ensuring a successful design, you must do all of that design and calculation over again. All of it. You must go through the expensive prototyping process again, from scratch.

To shorten a grip, you must cut it. That's all. No strength considerations, and no dynamic considerations. Hell, with a Glock, which is unique in having a block to stoip the magazine going too far, you can even cut the grip far too short and it will still work.

So, go back to reading a gun rag and thinking it tells you something useful about the engineering involved in firearm design.

Sheesh.

As far as the finger grooves, put them wherever you want! Their positions have no engineering consequence. It's just a set of injection molds, and the manufacturer needed to make a new set of those for the shorter frame anyhow!

PS: When you find yourself in a hole, stop diggin'.
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Bartledan said:
Yes, I agree. Your ignorance would lead to to incorrectly call those changes the easy part.

I cringe at having to explain this:

There is an engineered balance between the position of the feed ramp for reliable feeding, and the position of the rear of the spring to ensure the spring is not collapsed during recoil.

Inside this space, a locking block and barrel lugs must be arranged such that geometric constraints (space) dynamic constriants (sufficient space for the barrel to move straight back before it begins to fall in unlocking to permit time for the bullet to leave the barrel), and strength constraints (the locking block must not break, therefore it must have a certain amount of material in it.)

Once you have designed one gun, say, the G17, you have done a mass of careful calculation and design woork. In order to change these geometric, dynamic, and strength relationships while ensuring a successful design, you must do all of that design and calculation over again. All of it. You must go through the expensive prototyping process again, from scratch.

To shorten a grip, you must cut it. That's all. No strength considerations, and no dynamic considerations. Hell, with a Glock, which is unique in having a block to stoip the magazine going too far, you can even cut the grip far too short and it will still work.

So, go back to reading a gun rag and thinking it tells you something useful about the engineering involved in firearm design.

Sheesh.

As far as the finger grooves, put them wherever you want! Their positions have no engineering consequence. It's just a set of injection molds, and the manufacturer needed to make a new set of those for the shorter frame anyhow!

PS: When you find yourself in a hole, stop diggin'.
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Why don't you take a few hours and learn something about how these guns are made (and why these features are built into them) before you spout off? It might not be a bad idea.

I hate to patronize you, but you're bringing it upon yourself with your silly posts.

(Now is the part where you come back "guns blazing" pretending to be an all knowing gun guru and how you've been a "toilet seat expert" on these particular guns since they first arrived on North American shores, etc. etc., :rolleyes: ... truely sir, we are all in awe of you)

Anyway, cheers brother. This is just an online message board, and none of us are involved in the design or manufacture of these pistols. Take a deep breath or two. It's good for your health.
 
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ghostie said:
Why don't you take a few hours and learn something about how these guns are made (and why these features are built into them) before you spout off? It might not be a bad idea.

I hate to patronize you, but you're bringing it upon yourself with your silly posts.

(Now is the part where you come back "guns blazing" pretending to be an all knowing gun guru and how you've been a "toilet seat expert" on these particular guns since they first arrived on North American shores, etc. etc., :rolleyes: ... truely sir, we are all in awe of you)

Anyway, cheers brother. This is just an online message board, and none of us are involved in the design or manufacture of these pistols. Take a deep breath or two. It's good for your health.
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That's an awesome post, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You've as much as admitted that you have no points to make, and no idea what you're talking about. Nice job.
 
Bartledan said:
That's an awesome post, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You've as much as admitted that you have no points to make, and no idea what you're talking about. Nice job.
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Yep.. as promised and right on cue. The silly little man stamps his little feet and waves his little arms. Hopefully this goes on for awhile. I, for one, want to see what other "gems" Bartledan can come up with :rolleyes: .
 
ghostie said:
Yep.. as promised and right on cue. The silly little man stamps his little feet and waves his little arms. Hopefully this goes on for awhile. I, for one, want to see what other "gems" Bartledan can come up with :rolleyes: .
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That's an awesome post, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You've as much as admitted that you have no points to make, and no idea what you're talking about. Nice job.
 
Bartledan said:
That's an awesome post, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You've as much as admitted that you have no points to make, and no idea what you're talking about. Nice job.
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(see my last post... the stamping of little feet and waving of little arms could go on for some time... and this is about to get really funny. A "gun expert" that has to have the last word on an anoymous message board with someone he has never met? Haha. :D Priceless. )
 
ghostie said:
(see my last post... the stamping of little feet and waving of little arms could go on for some time... and this is about to get really funny. A "gun expert" that has to have the last word on an anoymous message board with someone he has never met? Haha. :D Priceless. )
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That's an awesome post, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You've as much as admitted that you have no points to make, and no idea what you're talking about. Nice job.
 
ghostie said:
Why don't you take a few hours and learn something about how these guns are made (and why these features are built into them) before you spout off? It might not be a bad idea.

I hate to patronize you, but you're bringing it upon yourself with your silly posts.

(Now is the part where you come back "guns blazing" pretending to be an all knowing gun guru and how you've been a "toilet seat expert" on these particular guns since they first arrived on North American shores, etc. etc., :rolleyes: ... truely sir, we are all in awe of you)

Anyway, cheers brother. This is just an online message board, and none of us are involved in the design or manufacture of these pistols. Take a deep breath or two. It's good for your health.
Click to expand...

actually Dan does know what he's talking about, and is correct on top of that. So unless you can actually come back with some sort of engineering evidence to support your ideas you might want to sit back and learn instead of making a fool of yourself.
 
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