G34 in IPSC Production?

I haven't really priced out a Glock 17 lately, but what does a new one go for?
$600?
$700?
A new Shadow is $739 at CRAFM.
Frank was actually selling them for $699 at MIC in January (if I remember correctly)
They may even be cheaper elsewhere.

If I had to decide between the two, the cost difference would not be the deciding factor in my opinion.
$100 isn't much in the grand scheme of IPSC costs.

What would sway my decision is the fact that
a) Glock sights are crap from the factory and need to be changed asap
b) Glocks are super light and while it may help with quick transitions, it does nothing to help absorb recoil, especially when all the weight is high up in the slide. Unless you are Vogel, muzzle flip will likely be an issue
c) The striker fire triggers don't feel that great compared to that of the shadow. It really is a great trigger out of the box.
d) grip angle is an issue if you shoot anything other than a glock. Every time I pick one up I have a hard time acquiring the sights as I am used to the angle of my CZ and 1911

Bottom line, a new shooter has to try out as many guns as possible to see what they might like the best and go from there.

I bought a Shadow as my IPSC pistol, did my black badge with it and have been competing with it ever since.
In fact I have a couple and use the newest one as my competition gun, and the others as training pistols to avoid putting too much wear and tear on the one I will rely on in competition.
 
JBD said:
And you are using exactly the same gun that you started ipsc with?
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Hard to believe, eh? Still not completely mastered it, so why change? :)

Since I started I've replaced the factory grips with thick aluminum ones and replaced CR-Speed holster with BT DOH one.
 
Mags are about $25-30 more.
gun comes with 3
I rarely walk up to the line with more than 5 mags on me.

$60 additional cost for a CZ.
Pros still outweigh the cons in my books.

Oh and out of curiosity I just did a quick search for Glock 17 prices.
$700 new. plus $100 to put real sights on the gun.

Its a wash between the two guns price wise.
Comes down to shooter preference.

Cost is not the deciding factor.


And we haven't even discussed all the production legal factory available options (grips/trigger/hammer) to really fine tune the CZ should you chose to do so
 
PeterPan said:
Eugene
I can see you are not the biggest fun of Glock and consider inferior to Shadow.
I think better pistol then Shadow is Stock 3 or Spinx, why don't you buy one of those.
Eugene is not about frikin gun is about ability of using it.
If someone wants to buy H&K P90 plus 4 more mags for $70 bucks each I say that is silly but having MP or Glock as first is not bad at all.
BTW I like P90L, can't justify +1300 for a pistol with IPSC unfriendly trigger.
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I think you mean P30L..or P30LS.
Trigger is not bad. needs polishing.
 
Maurice
I love HK pistols but they are pricey and that long trigger pull.
In my opinion they are Infinity of polymer pistols.
Accuracy is amazing, overall craftsmanship way better then Sig.
 
pauls said:
Technically he couldn't do better than 1st place at the world shoot :), but I know what you mean.

And yes, his grip strength is stupid.
I spoke with him at the airport leaving Greece.
He showed me his grip strength training device that he does daily reps with.
No one there could squeeze the thing together, he made it look effortless.

OP sorry for the thread hijack.

My opinion, go try out a few pistols before you commit to buying something.
Ultimately, i would suggest you pick up a used Shadow to get you started.
Or even a new one, they go for just over $700, come with 3 mags. buy 2-3 more and you should be good to go.

The belt/holster/mag pouches will be the same cost regardless of pistol.
Again, go to your club or to an IPSC match and see what others are using. Ask why, ask to try their gear.
99% of the people will be more than happy to let you try their gear.
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No apology necessary. I am enjoying reading all the replies and has really made me realize I have a LOT to learn. I read all the suggestions, "Try as many guns as you can", but I would just feel weird about walking up to someone at the range and asking to shoot their gun. I have never even shot a handgun before so maybe there is some kind of training available here I don't know. Very small town here. I was just thinking if I get a handgun, IPSC sounds like a lot of fun and I might as well get something I can actually use later. Or maybe what the heck, just get a whole bunch just because I CAN :D
Seriously though, thanks to everyone for their input. Sidenote: Is there anywhere on the lower south coast of BC that offers some kind on training/instruction in handguns? May be an idea for my holidays this summer.
 
Western Star to give you an ideal what a great bunch of guys IPSC Shooters are i had a fellow from Fernie drive over to Taber Alberta on a Sunday to see what IPSC was all about and to try some guns. he was all hot to trot to buy a Glock (and i have the same opinion of Glocks as Eugene) till he got to try half a dozen guns. he couldn't believe how guys were willing to let him try their guns not once but repeatedly. He not only ended up registering for a BB course with me, he made arrangements with one of the shooters to borrow his gun (yes it was a shadow with thick grips) and i lined him up gear.

I am not sure where in BC you are but drop me a PM and i can let you know the closest club to you and who to contact.
 
If you are in the lower mainland area (basically North Van to Hope), come out to Skills and Drills night this Friday at 7:30pm and you can try out pretty much all the top contender pistols on the market with the exception of the Sphynx, unless one of my guys has one and hasn't told me, Shadow, Glock, M&P, P30 etc etc etc. pretty well represented at class.
 
euxx said:
Really? Could you please name at least one competitive competitor in Canada shooting G17? You can take the Nationals standings or LIII results for past few years.
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Who is your leading Canadian Production shooter? Jean-Philippe Drolet? He is a very good shooter.

He edge me by about half a percent at the Area 5 USPSA match last year. I shoot a Glock. I edged Matt Hopkins (CZ) by about that margin. Matt edged Lee D. by about the same margin. I'm not sure what Lee was shooting. If Tony Holmes would have shot (hand injury), he would have been in the mix. Tony shoots a Glock which is probably about as stock as mine.

We all were 10% behind Ben Stoeger...who shot a Beretta. In fact, I can name 3 other Area 5 Production Grand Masters that made their way up the ladder with a Beretta. So...clearly...the Beretta is the way to go. :rolleyes:



Don't confuse popular with competitive.

Here in the US, STI is a very popular platform for Limited division. It's a good gun, but there are other options that are nearly identical. STI rules the roost because they came out with a great program...getting people that traveled to matches to shoot their guns and wear their shirts. It was good marketing...to go along with a good product. (and yet, I shot my 40 caliber Glock to Grand Master in Limited division somehow)
 
Flexmoney said:
Who is your leading Canadian Production shooter? Jean-Philippe Drolet? He is a very good shooter.

He edge me by about half a percent at the Area 5 USPSA match last year. I shoot a Glock. I edged Matt Hopkins (CZ) by about that margin. Matt edged Lee D. by about the same margin. I'm not sure what Lee was shooting. If Tony Holmes would have shot (hand injury), he would have been in the mix. Tony shoots a Glock which is probably about as stock as mine.

We all were 10% behind Ben Stoeger...who shot a Beretta. In fact, I can name 3 other Area 5 Production Grand Masters that made their way up the ladder with a Beretta. So...clearly...the Beretta is the way to go. :rolleyes:

Don't confuse popular with competitive.

Here in the US, STI is a very popular platform for Limited division. It's a good gun, but there are other options that are nearly identical. STI rules the roost because they came out with a great program...getting people that traveled to matches to shoot their guns and wear their shirts. It was good marketing...to go along with a good product. (and yet, I shot my 40 caliber Glock to Grand Master in Limited division somehow)
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Kyle, I am not sure what Glock you've shot at the Area 5, but I somehow doubt it was a factory gun that would be legal for IPSC Production division. For example, G34 popular in USPSA Production is a very different gun from G17 allowed in IPSC Production division. :cool:

Like I said, there are people out there who can shoot anything, both Ben and Bob are from that relatively small crowd. And many USPSA GMs, including yourself, have put lot of effort to be where they are. I still believe there is a certain barrier that lots of new people never pass and they dropping out from IPSC out of frustration... Getting a gun that is a bit easier to shoot could make it a lot easier to go trough that.
 
euxx said:
Kyle, I am not sure what Glock you've shot at the Area 5, but I somehow doubt it was a factory gun that would be legal for IPSC Production division. For example, G34 popular in USPSA Production is a very different gun from G17 allowed in IPSC Production division. :cool:
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G34...G17...whatever it takes. ;)

Heck, I can shoot my G26 (stock) at about 90% of my ability. Completely stock (carry gun).



Like I said, there are people out there who can shoot anything, both Ben and Bob are from that relatively small crowd.
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Ugh. I hate the superman argument. It's like arguing religion.

And many USPSA GMs, including yourself, have put lot of effort to be where they are.
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Well, to be pointed about it... You did suggest that G17 wasn't competitive, when you asked who has shot one at the top of the list in Majors in Canada.

I still believe there is a certain barrier that lots of new people never pass and they dropping out from IPSC out of frustration... Getting a gun that is a bit easier to shoot could make it a lot easier to go trough that.
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That is your best argument. I don't agree with it, but it is your best bet for hatin' on a certain platform.

You say the gun doesn't fit you. That is fine. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

You make the 5lb trigger argument. I might say that learning a heavier double action first shot, then transitioning to single action can be a frustrating proposition. (I really don't believe that, but it's an easy argument to make)

What I do believe is that one must learn to run the gun they are comfortable with. They must do the foundation work. I'd suggest that doing that work with a G17...one of the best running guns on the planet...would be a benefit. Heck, doing it with a revolver would be good. Then, one can focus on the shooting.

Since you can't hardly hurt the gun (unless you dump a bunch of aftermarket stuff in them)...what is a used G17 going for in Canada?
 
Competitive shooting is very Darwinian. The best overall platforms tend to percolate to the top. Currently, if you look at a cross-section of Production Division competitors world-wide you will most likely find that there are 3 guns that stand apart from all the rest. I'm going to guess CZ Shadow, Glock, and S&W M&P but I could be wrong. This does not mean that you can't be competitive with something else if you like it better; preference has to count for something.

If you follow these two rules:
*Try before you buy and,
*Buy the best you can afford
you will be well served for many years. Get what you like best and feed it tons of ammo.
 
euxx said:
Really? Could you please name at least one competitive competitor in Canada shooting G17? You can take the Nationals standings or LIII results for past few years.
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Well he shot a G22 not a G17, but Brent was a Production GM in Ontario before the ratings changes. He's back shooting Standard now - lately with his G35.
 
Flexmoney said:
G34...G17...whatever it takes. ;)

Heck, I can shoot my G26 (stock) at about 90% of my ability. Completely stock (carry gun).





Ugh. I hate the superman argument. It's like arguing religion.



Well, to be pointed about it... You did suggest that G17 wasn't competitive, when you asked who has shot one at the top of the list in Majors in Canada.



That is your best argument. I don't agree with it, but it is your best bet for hatin' on a certain platform.

You say the gun doesn't fit you. That is fine. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

You make the 5lb trigger argument. I might say that learning a heavier double action first shot, then transitioning to single action can be a frustrating proposition. (I really don't believe that, but it's an easy argument to make)

What I do believe is that one must learn to run the gun they are comfortable with. They must do the foundation work. I'd suggest that doing that work with a G17...one of the best running guns on the planet...would be a benefit. Heck, doing it with a revolver would be good. Then, one can focus on the shooting.

Since you can't hardly hurt the gun (unless you dump a bunch of aftermarket stuff in them)...what is a used G17 going for in Canada?
Click to expand...


You make a lot of sense and have a great personality to boot. Not trying to be a nuthugger. Just saying! :D
 
G17 has been used to win or Nats once for sure, I think twice. never felt at a disadvantage when using mine. I prefer the same trigger pull on every shot, yes the sights are crap but its a cheap and easy upgrade. I went with Trijicon Novaks and the only other mod is an extended mag catch.
 
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