Having read a few posts on different threads about the prices of Garands I came to the conclusion that not a lot is thought about when prices are kicked about. What is considered expensive? Affordable? Cheap? I could cobble together a Garand out of leftover parts but it may not be within any safe specs or just close enough to pass. Is that a $1000 rifle? Or, does a buyer expect a $400 barrel installed and reamed plus a $400+ semi fancy grade stock? BTW those are American dollars, add the exchange,shipping and taxes and you will have spent over a grand. I understand that time is a usually a cost that is hard to get back on a home build, but it does appear that some folks have never tried to hunt down decent parts, pay exchange rates and shipping, refinish those parts and hope that everything goes together well without having spare parts to work with if something does not fit just right. A quick cost of parts on one of the sponsors sites has them at over $1500 without the stock.Sure you will get a discount if you buy enough but still not cheap. Most parts are no longer in stock and if they were the prices would be sure to be more expensive. I have some builds finished, some on the go and a couple of receivers just in case I get bored. Right now they are to be gifted to my kids, nephews and nieces if they want them after I am gone from this world. Anyways, I guess my rant is done. Time to grab a snack and then head to bed.
Garand Pricing
- Thread starter FALover
- Start date
My Garand build cost me $1600-$1800 which included a fancy, fitted stock and a new Criterion barrel.
You could always talk to I Run Guns about importing a Garand from the CMP but you may have to wait a few months for it to arrive.
If you haven't already, check this out - http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/989563-The-M1-Garand-Build-Thread?highlight=garand+build
You could always talk to I Run Guns about importing a Garand from the CMP but you may have to wait a few months for it to arrive.
If you haven't already, check this out - http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/989563-The-M1-Garand-Build-Thread?highlight=garand+build
As these rifles have climbed in price since the mid 2000s the disparity between excellent condition and Ok has become foggy for too many. A good average SA rifle was $400 and a really clean IHC was $600 just give you a range. Now Ive seen some rifles go for 2200 plus down to 1200 recently for the same maker. At the same time i see rusty crap with a couple nice parts on it and the price is approaching 2K.what?!. Then recently barrelled receivers going for $700 and they're not even ww2 guns. $50 italian receiver and a maybe at most $300 barrel and the ask is double?. The newly minted "garand experts" are muddying the waters when it comes to value and spiking prices based on i guess well call it greed. I find it difficult to see what the market is doing on these rifles with all the wild varying opinions on pricing. Not a good situation for the novice that just wants a decent garand to plink and coddle during band of brothers marathons.
First of all, I do not sell any of my rifles. But with the greatest of respect, you are wrong.
First of all, if someone assembles a Garand on an Italian receiver, the price of such a thing should be around $700 or so. The receiver is $50 and an assembled bolt is about $120 or so. A barrel is about $300 and let's not forget that it costs money to install that barrel. Take a look at the price of tools. Brownells does not give away tools and to buy a pull through reamer, vise and barrel wrench will cost more money.
It will cost at least $500 to buy the right tools to assemble a Garand. So if you can buy a properly barrelled action for $700, you are actually ahead of the game.
The thing is with Garands, there are too many people who remember 1982 when a good Garand cost less than $200. Sadly, it is 2015 and I cannot turn back the clock and get you a cheap Garand to go along with your thirty five cent cup of coffee and twenty five cents per litre gasoline
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TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
So true about that 25 cent a liter for gasoline! 
I miss those days of $400 M14 rifles from Israel and $189 Garands from LeBaron in Mississauga (actually, North York on Yonge Street back then).
Barney
I miss those days of $400 M14 rifles from Israel and $189 Garands from LeBaron in Mississauga (actually, North York on Yonge Street back then).
Barney
Im not quite sure what your referring to about not selling your rifles. I Don't see the connection to what I wrote. Anyway that doesn't make sense for anyone to include the price of tools in the cost of building one gun. The tools are for most people a long term investment and can be used to build many guns and not just the garands. Thats like buying a car and buying tools to fix it then expecting the the person that buys the car to pay for the tools you used. No way. So let me break out the ol calculator here. 50+300+120=470. Id be willing to go to $500 on that. $700 is out of line. Its an hours worth of work to barrel an italian receiver and a 50s SA barrel thats already going to index properly. Maybe add 15 mins to ream it if you even need to. There isn't $350 extra dollars of value there. Any smittys out there charging $350 for a barrel install on a Garand????
It's all relative to availability and the cost of things. For example, I bought an unused Letterkeny Arsenal rebuild of a 1942 Springfield with new 1965 barrel, all in mint condition, in Montreal in 1976 for $70. I was probably making $750-$800 a month at the time and there wasn't really a huge demand for MILSURP rifles back then in the pre-Band of Brothers/Saving Private Ryan/Call of Duty era, so that's roughly 10% of monthly income. A Garand in similar condition seems to go for $1800-$2000 nowadays with rifles in high demand and virtually nothing being sold at retail. That looks like about 30 percent of a $7500 monthly income.
The flush of cheap Danish surplus Garands on the retail market in the 1995-2003 period was a real anomaly with prices running around $300 a pop and up to $800 or so for a nice M1D. The Canadian retail market was so saturated with Garands that many were stripped down and sold as parts kits, sans receivers, in the US. The $50 Breda/Beretta receivers that are being sold today are the leftovers from that parting out exercise. Where it gets expensive is when you try to assemble all of the parts and tooling necessary to build a rifle on these "donor" receivers, especially when importing parts from the US or Europe with an 80 cent dollar.
The days of bargain basement Garands and other quality MILSURPs are definitely over. They aren't making any more and imports have about dried up. I think that the best deals to be had these days are the Swedish Mausers and Swiss K31s. They aren't Garands, M1903 Springfields, or Long Branch No4s, but they are fine shooting rifles and can be found in very nice condition.
The flush of cheap Danish surplus Garands on the retail market in the 1995-2003 period was a real anomaly with prices running around $300 a pop and up to $800 or so for a nice M1D. The Canadian retail market was so saturated with Garands that many were stripped down and sold as parts kits, sans receivers, in the US. The $50 Breda/Beretta receivers that are being sold today are the leftovers from that parting out exercise. Where it gets expensive is when you try to assemble all of the parts and tooling necessary to build a rifle on these "donor" receivers, especially when importing parts from the US or Europe with an 80 cent dollar.
The days of bargain basement Garands and other quality MILSURPs are definitely over. They aren't making any more and imports have about dried up. I think that the best deals to be had these days are the Swedish Mausers and Swiss K31s. They aren't Garands, M1903 Springfields, or Long Branch No4s, but they are fine shooting rifles and can be found in very nice condition.
My Feb 42 Garand cost me around 3800 to 4000, all original matching to date parts, gotta mention it took me a while to source all of the parts to assemble the rifle. But to build a shooter itll cost you somewhere around 1200 to 1800 all parts sourced in canada
Same with girls.
I'm ''that'' novice that would like to buy a Garand right now, but in fear of getting a sh*tty piece for double of what it's worth, i'm playing the raven game.
JP
I tried to explain it to you gently. But now I will let you know how I really feel.
When I quoted the cost of parts needed to build a barrelled action, I neglected to factor in the cost of shipping, taxes, duties, etc. Of course, I should I have explained this, but you probably think that Canada Post is free.
When I quoted the cost of tools, I mentioned the figure of $500 but again I did not factor in the cost of duties, shipping and taxes. But these costs were there. And in addition I neglected to mention that early on we damaged a $200 reamer which had to be replaced. Now I did not buy these tools as "an investment". Moreover, I did not buy these tools for your benefit either. I bought them so that my buddy and I could build Garands.
Now if I were to suffer a blow to my head and thereafter change my mind about wanting to help you, you would have to pay your fair share with respect to the cost of tooling. Now maybe you think that people should help you for free. But it does not work that way. As I see it you have four choices: 1. You can continue to snivel about the high cost of Garands; 2. You can pay your fair share and get someone (but not me) to help you; 3. You can buy your own tools or 4. You can get a Norinco 305 instead.
This year, I planned to build 5 Garands. But with the devalued dollar and the low price of oil, I realized that I could only build four Garands. This left me with an extra barrelled action. Originally I thought I might sell the barrelled action here on the equipment exchange. But as a result of guys like you, I will never sell even one screw to anyone. I simply do not want to deal with useless cheapskates who want me to give away my valuable parts.
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My original post could have been a bit clearer. Simply put, what are reasonable prices for these rifles? As not all of us can find an original Garand carried by Gen. Patton when he won the war we have to be content with a reasonable facsimile. How much for an example with a beat up, mixed wood stock and a shot out barrel on a receiver that has no finish left, pitting in all the wrong places and held together by a rusted trigger group with the 'rare' field modified safety? Add a oprod that has an additional bend to help it pass the all knowing tilt test and you have a M1 rifle. Up the game a bit. Good used barrel on a nicer looking receiver + a new Boyd's stock. Better trigger group, serviceable op rod, good internals and a gas cylinder that is almost good to go? Still an M1 rifle. Now go over the top. Deans semi fancy stock, new stock metal, Kreiger barrel, NOS gas cylinder/lock/screw, rebuilt op rod that is better than new, excellent internals and everything reparked and then built onto a beadblasted and refinished Beretta receiver? Once again, still a M1 rifle. With the many variations on the Garand build and no precise guidelines on values in the Canadian marketplace the question is not one of greed. It is a simple question of value for your dollar. As I value my limited funds I build my own. Others may have a more flexible budget and find it is cheaper to work a few hours of overtime to pay for their project. To do it my way I have the basic tools. Barrel vise, action wrench,reamer, headspace gauges, gas cylinder gauges, muzzle gauge, custom built 'cheater' bar, digital caliper, digital angle finder, air compressor, sandblasting setup and manganese phosphate parkerizing equipment. I would never say I am an expert but I would say I am meticulous and experienced. I would also say that I am far from greedy. What I will admit to is, I am a consumer. I have a fair idea of what parts are worth as opposed to what they cost. What I do not know is what the sum of all the various parts are when assembled and working in good order and is why I started this thread.
ps.I would never charge $350 an hour for my time even though it is worth it!
ps.I would never charge $350 an hour for my time even though it is worth it!
you cant export CMP garands from what i've heard. hence why i got zdragunov to build my sweet 308 garand. i just put a SEI muzzle brake on it.. should take some more pictures
you cant export CMP garands from what i've heard. hence why i got zdragunov to build my sweet 308 garand. i just put a SEI muzzle brake on it.. should take some more pictures
Come to think of it, you should know quite well as you were trying to do this many moons ago weren't you?
That Garand you had built for you was definitely nice! Take more pictures, dammit
If we can in fact not have CMP Garand's exported here it is a real shame. A friend down south just received an absolutely beautiful SA from the CMP and he couldn't be happier. What I imagine he paid makes our prices look criminal, but it's all a guess and I shall not get into that
Come to think of it, you should know quite well as you were trying to do this many moons ago weren't you?
That Garand you had built for you was definitely nice! Take more pictures, dammit
If we can in fact not have CMP Garand's exported here it is a real shame. A friend down south just received an absolutely beautiful SA from the CMP and he couldn't be happier. What I imagine he paid makes our prices look criminal, but it's all a guess and I shall not get into that
Irunguns is bringing in Garands from James River Armory, same ones Wanstall's brought in a few years ago.
What's ironic is that 12 yrs ago or so my US Garand buddies were very envious of the el cheapo rifles that were available here. Importing anything from the US these days is a very expensive proposition with the exchange rate and handling fees.
Any rifle that is built up on a stripped receiver, such as the Breda and Beretta receivers that are now being sold, is basically worth the sum of the parts that are used. The more expensive the parts, the greater the value. I've been assembling/rebuilding/restoring Garands for a long time and do this as a hobby, not as a business. For this reason I don't try to amortize the cost of my tooling and the time that I spend in the value of the piece. If someone hires out the gunsmithing time or reparkerizing to another, then they would no doubt want to include this in their valuation.
Beyond these mixmaster/shooter builds, you next need to look at the collectible rifles. Generally collector appeal and value are ranked as follows with condition and originality of parts commanding a greater value:
1. Unrefinished/unrestored rifles in superior condition with original parts. Pre-WW2 and WW2 vintage rifles are valued higher than post war models. WRA rifles are valued higher than SA rifles, everything being equal. Among the post war rifles the HRA and IHCs are the scarcest and command a slight premium over the SAs. Original parts correct Bredas and Berettas are next. I think that these are a bit of a sleeper for value as there were fewer of these made than all other types, especially the Bredas. There are also premiums paid for original M1D and M1C sniper rifles as well as bona-fide arsenal produced military match rifles. Original condition/unrebuilt/unrestored Garands are quite scarce as most were rebuilt at least once in military service and parts of any make were swapped in as necessary during the maintenance process.
2. Bona-fide military arsenal rebuilt/overhauled rifles with any combinations of military parts. These can be ID'd by various stock and/or receiver markings depending on the rebuild facility and the time that the rebuild was done.
3. Restored and/or refinished rifles showing manufacturer/period correct parts.
4. Shooter grade rifles with any combinations of military parts.
Junk is junk no matter what, so people should not pay much for rifles with worn out, pitted or unserviceable parts, altho rifles can normally be picked over to salvage something that is useable. Ultimately value is set by what someone is willing to pay, so it's pretty tough to nail down a precise value, other than for the built up parts rifles which are worth the sum of their parts on the current retail market. One thing is for sure, they are not making or importing any more Garands, so prices will inevitably continue to rise as a function of supply and demand.
Beyond these mixmaster/shooter builds, you next need to look at the collectible rifles. Generally collector appeal and value are ranked as follows with condition and originality of parts commanding a greater value:
1. Unrefinished/unrestored rifles in superior condition with original parts. Pre-WW2 and WW2 vintage rifles are valued higher than post war models. WRA rifles are valued higher than SA rifles, everything being equal. Among the post war rifles the HRA and IHCs are the scarcest and command a slight premium over the SAs. Original parts correct Bredas and Berettas are next. I think that these are a bit of a sleeper for value as there were fewer of these made than all other types, especially the Bredas. There are also premiums paid for original M1D and M1C sniper rifles as well as bona-fide arsenal produced military match rifles. Original condition/unrebuilt/unrestored Garands are quite scarce as most were rebuilt at least once in military service and parts of any make were swapped in as necessary during the maintenance process.
2. Bona-fide military arsenal rebuilt/overhauled rifles with any combinations of military parts. These can be ID'd by various stock and/or receiver markings depending on the rebuild facility and the time that the rebuild was done.
3. Restored and/or refinished rifles showing manufacturer/period correct parts.
4. Shooter grade rifles with any combinations of military parts.
Junk is junk no matter what, so people should not pay much for rifles with worn out, pitted or unserviceable parts, altho rifles can normally be picked over to salvage something that is useable. Ultimately value is set by what someone is willing to pay, so it's pretty tough to nail down a precise value, other than for the built up parts rifles which are worth the sum of their parts on the current retail market. One thing is for sure, they are not making or importing any more Garands, so prices will inevitably continue to rise as a function of supply and demand.
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