Garand shooting (problem?)...

mtallman

mtallman

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Hi,
I just took my new M1D out for a go today.

As wholesale and SIR were out of 4895, a guy there recommended H414, so I used this with a lighter load (48g behind a 150g FMJBT). The rifle seemed to like the load, and I was shooting a 2" group at 100 yards (not all to great, but a fair start).

Now I have 2 questions. Is this load too heavy? The action cycled fine except for below..
2) I shot 2 clips through, and had the same problem both times (used the same enbloc both times). Upon shooting the 6th round, the first time it ejected the empty and the next live round and closed on an empty chamber, and the second time it ejected the empty and jammed the next live one between the bolt face and the part above the bore. Is this problem common? Is it just the clip, something I'm doing wrong? etc....

Thanks,
Matt
 
It could have something to do with the Spring in the Operating Rod that pushes the next round into place.

If the load is to heavy it might cause to much pressure on the spring which might make the timing off. It might be that the 6th round is where the wieght of the rounds becomes to light or something.

Cam
 
1. Give it a really good bath. Especially the gas system.
2. Make sure the rifle is properly lubed. Grease, not oil.
3. Make sure the gas cylinder and barrel are properly aligned and the gas cylinder screw is tight.
4. Try a different clip.
Go buy a copy of Hatcher's Book of the Garand. There's a whole chapter on trouble shooting the rifle.
"...the way the clips are loaded..." The 7th round stoppage issue was fixed before the rifle was put into mass production.
H414 will do, but IMR4064 give more consistent accuracy than either H414 or IMR4895. Especially with 165 grain hunting bullets and 168 grain match bullets. The latest Hornady manual has a whole section for M-1 loads.
 
Garand malfunction

There are several possible causes for this.The one to eliminate first is the possibility of worn detents in the clip you are using.Try it with a different clip.Having eliminated this,other causes might be a weak clip latch spring,a worn clip latch,bent follower rod,worn follower rod forks,worn op rod catch, or worn follower arm.In each case the part should be swapped out and the rifle cycled with a clip of dummy rds to check for premature clip ejection.I live in MB,not Wpg though,and fire approx 500 handloads a yr thru my Garands with no problems.You can PM me for more info/assistance if you like.The SIR guy steered you wrong on H414 for the M1.H414 is a fine propellant for the .30-06 IN A BOLT GUN,and I like it a lot.The propellant issue with the M1 is gas port pressure to cycle the action properly.IMR 4895 was MILSPEC for the M1,but IMR 4064,H4895,or Varget are all OK.Anything slower burning than 4064/Varget,and that includes H414, does not generate the proper port pressure for the M1 and should not be used.
 
What purple said X 2.....
Also check the EDIT: meant to say Op Rod Catch, sorry, if its arm is even slightly out of alignment it will touch a bullet in the "magazine well" and cause early ejection of clip.

After reading your post carefully the second time, I would go the cheapest route first and get a new clip latch spring first, Wolff Springs has them, someone suggested this before me I beleive.
(while ordering one could get a new action spring as well) Would not hurt to inspect the bullet guide (excessive side wear can contribute to binding)and accelerator tip as well. Just a little too much wear can cause problems relating to this.
The follower rod and forks have been mentioned already.

(Op Rod Catch)The little arm that holds down the clip latch, sometimes they get bent inwards by manufacturing or mishandling, and intrudes into the inside.....This one is a RARELY mentioned contribution to early clip ejection, all the arm has to do is breifly touch a bullet the clip is gone too early.
Best way to check this, is remove from rifle and lay it on a clean and dry surface, have the small part backlit, ensure to check all flat surfaces especially. Any defects will be very obvious.

I have Hatcher's Book too, but the Cuhlhausen Shop Manual for .30 Calibre Self Loading Service Rifles(?) is the only one that saved me here....
Hatcher's Book of the Garand, good as it is, does not cover troubleshooting in as great detail as the other shop manual.

That guy from SIR, deserves a jap-slap because he may have caused you to replace the OP Rod. If it's bent, from overpressure, they are about 80 bucks to replace! Keep to the recommended load data for the Garand, if in doubt check the NRA site for specifics.
 
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if requested i have an old but very good article dated mid 1980s)on reloading and wich powders to use in a m1 garand
send a pm to get it.
its worth it and i believe the powder you quote is a bit slo /fer m1s
 
Ok guys,
Thanks for the responses.

I'm in the process of giving her a good cleaning. The op rod is fine (just checked), but for now on I'll be using IMR4064 or H4895.

I'll check the op rod catch as well, and give it a good once over before I take it out again.

Thanks,
Matt

(EDIT: yeah, I changed it, thanks for the heads-up)
 
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Ah good, mtallman, I think that you will find that (EDIT: I see you changed it)IMR4064 and IMR4895 are the recommended powders.......these are Dupont powders, not Hodgon powders.

Seems my memory serves me well enough that H4895 never was a NRA recommended powder. There is a difference in burning rates.
 
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gagand problem

mtallman, i cant say exactly what your problem is but i would be carefull with handloads, we just witnessed a springfield armory garand blow all to h... about two weeks ago. blew off the cocking lever and blew the bolt right back through the reciever.we found a cartridge laying behind the shooter that had obviously fired while the action was open. never found the bullet but the case was split completely open . it was spectacular, to say the least.
 
Handloads in a Garand

There is no problem firing properly prepared handloads in a Garand provided that the rifle is sound and servicable and headspace is within specs.Properly prepared handloads mean all of the following;
-good quality brass FL re-sized and trimmed to length
-correct bullet weight and correct charges of the proper propellants
-primers seated below flush with the casehead
Without first hand examination of this rifle or knowledge of the handloads involved,one can only speculate on the cause(s) of such a catastrophic failure.An out of spec rifle and /or improper handloads can be the cause of a slamfire or an out of battery detonation in these rifles.Handloading for a Garand or M14 type is not as forgiving as for a bolt gun.Consult Kuhnhausen's excellent shop manual on the M1/M14 for perils and precautions associated with handloading for these rifles.
 
Garand Loads

In my Springfield M-1 1945 circa with a 1955 barrel I use only 4064 with a 168 Grain Hornady A-Max Match Moly coated bullet.
This load will consistantly produce sub 1 3/4 inch groups at 100 and will hover between 3 to 4 inches at 200 yards. I haven't done enough target tests at 300 yet, though it smack a 10 gong consistantly at that range.
Years ago I tried 4350 but ran into similar problems you are getting.
Cheers
 
Lube for Garands

MILSPEC grease comes in the small containers with a yellow cap that fits in the buttstock aperture.You can also use Tetra brand gease.Failing that,wheel bearing grease works well too.Critical points to apply grease(use a round wooden toothpick and put a small spot of grease on each location)are:
-both upper contact surfaces of the clip latch which protrude inside the receiver
-below the barrel all along the center line beneath the rear(bigger) part of the barrel
-on receiver bridge which engages the "tail" of the firing pin
-locking lug recesses and operating rod lug recess in the receiver
-top inside of receiver just to the rear of the bolt
-front face of hammer and top of hammer where bolt contact occurs
-operating rod to include the hooks which engage the op rod catch,the face and bottom of the lug which seats in the recess on the side of the receiver, the camming area inside the handle,and the surface to the rear of the hole for the op rod spring
-on the nose of the bullet guide
-on the round lugs at both ends of the follower arm
-on the hump of the follower rod
-on the "gibs" of the follower which ride up and down in the receiver
-a light coating with the fingers along operating rod spring
You can also apply a spot to other areas on the receiver where bright metal indicates contact with the op rod,but do not overdo it to the point where excess grease is thrown in your face when firing
 
I've been using "Super Lube" available from Canadian Tire or Home Hardware since 1979. It has kept my Garands, M14 (TRW), M1A, Winchester M97's, Marlin M1894S, & Winchester M92 running during some pretty bad weather conditions over the years and never failed me. Highly recommended.

prodctsrt9.jpg


http://www.super-lube.com/
 
Hey guys, I know its been a while but I'd just like to let everyone know what happened. I completely stripped, cleaned, and greased the rifle (took a good couple hours to get some of that cosmoline off). Went out to the range yesterday with some American Eagle .30-06, and she shot fine...none of the problems with the 6th round not chambering either.
I picked upo some IMR 4064 yesterday, and am going to shoot with handloads next time. Now I have to figure out how to sight it in for 400 yards on a 100 yard range :).
 
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