Gas vs Piston

Most people have A2 front sights for DI Ar15...A2 sight wont work with piston system.

Actually, the TNW piston kit lets you use any gas block you want. I plan on trying that system out sometime.

blaxsun:

Get the gun you want and don't worry about justifying it. It's only money...

For the typical gun nut, I think that pretty much sums it up right now.

I admit to having a certain lack of experience as I do not yet own an AR. However, I've researched the hell out of them. I have all the parts to build one short the receivers which are currently on their way from Dlask.

This time next week, I should have 2 uppers. A 16" piston, and a 20" precision DI.
I chose the Piston system for my high use fun gun as pistons are what I know. I'm used to working with them, know what to expect for cleaning them, so it keeps me in my comfort zone.
The 20" upper was an impulse buy, but it's what I was looking for for shooting groups like I currently do with my bolt gun.
I knew I was going to need DI for ultimate accuracy in the AR (or so I've read). I also knew that since I would not be shooting 200 rounds a session out of that upper, I could get used to the DI system on a gun that would be running a shorter, cleaner duty cycle.
 
The most important feature of the Piston system is that, they are more accurate than the DI versions. They use much less gas pressure to cycle rounds. Most of the ignition power is used on the projectile. Considering this, the 16" barrel has the same accuracy of a 20" barrel. The other fact is that the Piston guns Receiver and Bolt are so clean after shooting, no need to wipe (lube the bolt) , just clean the barrel and that's it. I have one and after a day of shooting, I have checked and saw no powder trace in the receiver.
 
The most important feature of the Piston system is that, they are more accurate than the DI versions. They use much less gas pressure to cycle rounds. Most of the ignition power is used on the projectile. Considering this, the 16" barrel has the same accuracy of a 20" barrel. The other fact is that the Piston guns Receiver and Bolt are so clean after shooting, no need to wipe (lube the bolt) , just clean the barrel and that's it. I have one and after a day of shooting, I have checked and saw no powder trace in the receiver.

The things that one learns on the 'net.....
 
There are those who promote the gas piston guns as a better mousetrap and there are those who claim it answers a question that was never asked. My perspective is that the gas piston might be a better option for the individual willing to pay for it, but not if the additional 30% cost prevents you from purchasing a rifle of equal value as the DGI (direct gas impingement) gun you would otherwise own. While I'm sort of in the same boat still trying to define the AR I want, I believe I'm closing in on a choice.

The AR was designed to do away with the gas piston of older designs like the FAL, G-3 and CETME rifles. But the result was a rifle action that heats up and badly fouls the firing components within the receiver once the lubricant has burnt away. I know this from firing then cleaning C-7s while on a Ranger course, and the cleaning that followed the firing involved scrapping carbon off the effected components, which over time I'm sure limited their life expectancy. The solution I've been hearing is to keep the bolt wet with lubricant, the idea being that the carbon can't stick to steel that is wet with a good quality lubricant. What we found on the ranger course was that through extensive full auto fire, any lubricant that was present burned off and the result was carbon fouling that proved difficult to remove. What the gas piston does is keep the heat and fouling at the gas block ahead of the forearm allowing the gun to run cooler. The disadvantages are that the heat is more focused in a smaller area, the heat might damage any plastic accessories you have installed near the front of the rifle, the gas block of the piston rifle is bulkier and heavier than the one on a direct gas impingement rifle, and the area around the gas block in front of the hand-guard of the gas piston rifle can become very dirty from fouling.

The chances are you will never heat up your own expensive rifle the way we heated up those C-7s, and regular maintenance will keep the functioning and condition of your rifle in top form. While I disagree with those who say that a gas piston is a complete wast of money, I will say it probably does not represent good value for most shooters considering the additional cost. Now myself, I'm still on the fence, but my choices of gas piston gun has limited itself to ADCOR's B.E.A.R which has a gas piston directly attached to the bolt rather than a piston which impacts a striker plate on it, while there are a number of DGI guns I'm still considering.

Some issues to consider before deciding on which gas system to choose are: the temperature extremes you will likely use the rifle in, the number of rounds the rifle will digest between cleanings, and the types of ammunition you intend to shoot.
 
Wow my head is spinning. From what I've gathered I think I may look to the DI system. I'm not the type that burns 500 rnds day after day ( I think that would put all of us in the poor house) just the odd trip out to the range and a bit of pumpkin splattering. I have had the opportunity to fire a bushmaster with an eotech site and that little gun was awesome.

Thanks for all the info. And as usual when you get one questioned answered a dozen more pop up. I'll keep reading and saving a few $$$ and pick up one of those AR's this winter.

Maybe a Norinco LOL....
 
I grew up on the FNC1, when I bought my Norc AR I could not believe how dirty it gets compared to a piston gun. a lot of good points, a piston gun needs to be a gun designed from the start to avoid the above mentioned problems. In a more perfect world us FAL types would be sneering at you AR types, but the AR types won (barely) the legal lottery and you can shoot them. The points about spare parts is very real and the cost difference is another factor. Unless of course you go SVT, CZ or SKS, then you have corrosive issues to deal with. Now in my more perfect world we could also throw roller lock in to the mix (Fantasy world HK is fairly cheap and common to civilians)
 
I grew up on the FNC1, when I bought my Norc AR I could not believe how dirty it gets compared to a piston gun. a lot of good points, a piston gun needs to be a gun designed from the start to avoid the above mentioned problems. In a more perfect world us FAL types would be sneering at you AR types, but the AR types won (barely) the legal lottery and you can shoot them. The points about spare parts is very real and the cost difference is another factor. Unless of course you go SVT, CZ or SKS, then you have corrosive issues to deal with. Now in my more perfect world we could also throw roller lock in to the mix (Fantasy world HK is fairly cheap and common to civilians)

ive often wondered how much dirtier the action gets in guns with fluted chambers. an interesting comparison test could be done, MP5 vs sten or sterling or uzi, and again G3/HK91 vs AR-10 vs M-14 vs FAL
 
There was an article in Gun and Ammo to compare DI vs piston (I think it was either July, August or September 2012 issue). I saw the magazine in library. If I remembered correctly, here are some of the highlights:
DI is cheaper than piston system
DI is more accurate (due to less moving parts)
Piston more reliability (less heat and carbon blows into the action)

I chose the piston system just because I do not like the gas tube and hot gas blowing onto the action. I ordered the SIG 516. It is not as expensive as HK223 but it is more expensive than Norinco AR. Buy what you feel comfortable.
 
Just adding my 0.02 cents... I have both the DI (gas) system in a 20 inch AR (Alberta Tactical Rifle build) and the piston system in a PWS 12.5" AR (Carbine). Both work well. I was out this weekend shooting the PWS. Nice little gun... did not miss a beat... and yup... a breeze to clean afterwards... compared to my DI (gas) AR... I cant speak to accuracy comparison but the PWS was still nice and clean when i finished shooting...

RDG
 
Jet engines don't have pistons and neither does my AR!

Except for some specialized applications, such as sustained automatic fire and/or short barrels, there is no benefit, combined with several disadvantages, to the piston AR. Note what KevinB has to say about piston ARs here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...iston-for-AR&p=4473283&viewfull=1#post4473283

As for as the myths of direct gas systems being unreliable and requiring an inordinate amount of cleaning to function, Pat Rogers has run tens of thousands of rounds through his "Filthy 14" carbine while only lubricating it.
 
Yup. Big heavy piston and carrier group. Along with a large gas port. Sure gives a lot of energy to yank that steel case out of the chamber, and let the ejector hurl it 30 or 40 feet.
 
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