General Purpose or Practical Rifles?

[Joel]

Always kinda felt like scout scopes are really dumb too, after trying one.

Pistol scopes are for pistols lol.

The 6.5 CM/260 Rem/7mm-08/308 area looks about perfect to me too...if it was a rifle one thought might be shot a lot at the range, perhaps I'd lean toward 308 and not feel so guilty about heating it up. Can load from 110 to 200 grains or buy plenty of factory ammo options...although thats kinda true for all of them now.

 

[dan belisle]

Always kinda felt like scout scopes are really dumb too, after trying one.

Pistol scopes are for pistols lol.

The 6.5 CM/260 Rem/7mm-08/308 area looks about perfect to me too...if it was a rifle one thought might be shot a lot at the range, perhaps I'd lean toward 308 and not feel so guilty about heating it up. Can load from 110 to 200 grains or buy plenty of factory ammo options...although thats kinda true for all of them now.

Scout scopes aren't pistol scopes, though they are similar. I've built a few scout rifles, still have my favorite, built on a Rem 600 in 308. Quick to use. Has a qd clamp scope mount for quick removal of the Burris scout scope and a peep sight that works fine out to 200 to 300 meters (depending on your target). I like the concept. - dan

 

[Gatehouse]

I’ve used a scout scope enough to know it’s not really my thing. I think they had a place decades ago when Jeff Cooper advocated for them but these days I believe there are better solutions.

 

[Slimbo]

The only thing I like about the scout scope is being able to carry the rifle with my hand wrapped around the action easily. Otherwise a conventionally mounted scope (LVPO) is much more user friendly for me

 

[bearhunter]

Scout scopes aren't pistol scopes, though they are similar. I've built a few scout rifles, still have my favorite, built on a Rem 600 in 308. Quick to use. Has a qd clamp scope mount for quick removal of the Burris scout scope and a peep sight that works fine out to 200 to 300 meters (depending on your target). I like the concept. - dan

I agree with all of this

Scout scopes are not intended for long range shots, beyond 250 meters. Likely even closer than that and they are intended for shooting with ''both eyes open" which goes along very well with their usual low magnification rates.

I have two rifles with LER scopes, one is chambered for the 257 Maximum in a Martini Cadet rifle with a heavy receiver and the other is on a Rem600 chambered for the 358Win, with a 20 inch bbl and is brutal to shoot.

I've never used either of these rifles on game over 125 yards away and they worked just fine.

The thing most folks don't understand about LER scopes is that they have be at the perfect height for the shooter to have a comfortable cheek weld while shooting and be directly in line with their eye, so that the shooter isn't searching for the image in the scope, while trying to get on target.

If you're left eye dominant and have issues with shooting with both eyes open, I wouldn't suggest this system to you.

You may be more interested in using an illuminated holographic sight, without magnification if your shots are going to be under 200yds with a 308Win chambered rifle.

 

[geologist]

I chopped a Rem 7600 .308 down to 18.6".

PA 1x8 illuminated SFP LPVO with a .308 Access reticle in Low QD rings. Scope zeroed at 100 yards.

Kept the Rem rear sight. Had the front sight and base re attached 3/4" from the cut barrel to make it easier to tape and threaded it 1/2" x28. Zeroed irons at 25 yards.

Screwed a shimmed pic rail on the left side of the forend for lights.

Front sling on a barrel band.

It's a good generalist rifle and I have four 4 round mags and one 10 round Mambamag.

 

[IvoB]

I would lean towards something that has an internal magazine (weatherby vanguard) caliber 25-06

 

[Joel]

Scout scopes aren't pistol scopes

It was a joke but they're close enough.

They don't seem to offer any advantages over a good, modern LPVO in any way unless you really want to clip-feed a Mauser lol

Would much rather be limited to aperture sights OR an optic (or sights mounted on the barrel, tradionally) and count on a solid optic not to break on me than use that hackjob awkward compromise

YMMV

 

[MRP]

Since there is no real definition I'll say model 94 was most guys first scout rifle. How about the jungle carbine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine
Like others I've tried the scout scope and it didn't work out for me but short rifles do. Currently have a 308 16", 300wsm 19", a 8x57 19", all with stocks on the shorter than average length. Clips in my opinion is overrated, good in war maybe but something to be forgotten or lost. I've never found it to be an advantage when hunting, unless you're a road hunter and a bad shot and need lots of ammo. The heaviest is 6.6lb unscoped longest 38.5", these become my always go to rifles so that makes them general porpoise to me. Eventually I gave all the others now homes. All have multiple dot scopes that give me almost zero thinking on shots out to 400+ yards.

 

[dan belisle]

It was a joke but they're close enough.

They don't seem to offer any advantages over a good, modern LPVO in any way unless you really want to clip-feed a Mauser lol

Would much rather be limited to aperture sights OR an optic (or sights mounted on the barrel, tradionally) and count on a solid optic not to break on me than use that hackjob awkward compromise

YMMV

Have you actually used one? - dan

 

[Joel]

Have you actually used one? - dan

No, I haven't.

I've used more than one Loved the idea until I started trying it and finding they don't have advantages over a modern optic solution like a Trijicon or other small, light, LPVO

Might have been the best answer back in the day. Today it just feels like a bad compromise.

Ever run both over a timer? lol

 

[CanuckCooper]

I spent a fair bit of money getting into a Ruger GSR. At the time the marketing really worked on me, and being a fan of Cooper made the venture a priority. At the time my other centerfire rifle was a 308 24” heavy barrel 700, with a 6-24x scope. I liked the idea of it being the “one rifle”. In the end I found it wasn’t the “one rifle” for anything for me. I initially had a vortex scout scope then moved on to a leupold. I used it a fair bit and shot it a bunch on steel at the family hunt camp. I practiced several of Cooper’s drills as often as I could up there.

I first noticed its weaknesses while hunting, the low light half hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset were very challenging. I passed on a shot at a buck I could see with my naked eyes, but not through the scout scope. It was also heavy and not ideal to carry in all circumstances(a fair bit heavier than coopers specs). I ended up selling it and moved on to a Model 70 Super Grade in 308, with a leupold VX3i 2.5-8x. That’s when I really saw a difference.

Honestly the standard sporter styled rifle just worked better for me. I found the sporter to be more “general purpose” than the Ruger scout. Close in snap shots are easier for me with the model 70 and it’s scope, and it still is able to be stretched out to distance with ease. Light gathering at the early and late witching hours for game is far superior with conventional scopes to my eye. This lead me to wonder if Cooper really used the concept. I could picture him riding about Gunsite on his three wheeler and plinking with it under perfect conditions. Just my mileage and thoughts. I’ve grown to prefer sporter rifles as general purpose rifles for me. The latest edition is a new model 700 BDL (it’s in the Rem 700 sticky) in 7mm Rem Mag with a VX3i 1.5-5x

 

[Joel]

I spent a fair bit of money getting into a Ruger GSR. At the time the marketing really worked on me, and being a fan of Cooper made the venture a priority. At the time my other centerfire rifle was a 308 24” heavy barrel 700, with a 6-24x scope. I liked the idea of it being the “one rifle”. I initially had a vortex scout scope then moved on to a leupold. I used it a fair bit and shot it a bunch on steel at the family hunt camp. I practiced several of Cooper’s drills as often as I could up there.

I first noticed its weaknesses while hunting, the low light half hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset were very challenging. I passed on a shot at a buck I could see with my naked eyes, but not through the scout scope. It was also heavy and not ideal to carry in all circumstances(a fair bit heavier than coopers specs). I ended up selling it and moved on to a Model 70 Super Grade in 308, with a leupold VX3i 2.5-8x. That’s when I really saw a difference.

Honestly the standard sporter styled rifle just worked better for me. I found the sporter to be more “general purpose” than the Ruger scout. Close in snap shots are easier for me with the model 70 and it’s scope, and it still is able to be stretched out to distance with ease. Light gathering at the early and late witching hours for game is far superior with conventional scopes to my eye. This lead me to wonder if Cooper really used the concept. I could picture him riding about Gunsite on his three wheeler and plinking with it under perfect conditions. Just my mileage and thoughts. I’ve grown to prefer sporter rifles as general purpose rifles for me. The latest edition is a new model 700 BDL (it’s in the Rem 700 sticky) in 7mm Rem Mag with a VX3i 1.5-5x

So 4 decades ago called and wants its idea back lol

Really doubt this is going to slow anyone down a millisecond compared to aiming through a straw halfway down their rifle...

There's a reason no one who does anything important, does it with a scout scope. You can even use it with both yer peepers open at the same time!

 

[CanuckCooper]

So 4 decades ago called and wants its idea back lol

Really doubt this is going to slow anyone down a millisecond compared to aiming through a straw halfway down their rifle...

There's a reason no one who does anything important, does it with a scout scope. You can even use it with both yer peepers open at the same time!

Exactly so.

 

[Joel]

Not forseeing any problems with good optics breaking and needing to switch to your irons...totally get wanting both apertures and a scope on your rifle, but this works so much better for me that it just aint worth it over the compromise.

 

[bearhunter]

It was a joke but they're close enough.

They don't seem to offer any advantages over a good, modern LPVO in any way unless you really want to clip-feed a Mauser lol

Would much rather be limited to aperture sights OR an optic (or sights mounted on the barrel, tradionally) and count on a solid optic not to break on me than use that hackjob awkward compromise

YMMV

Joel, that's just a personal opinion and if it works for you, fine.

However, if the ''LER" scopes are mounted properly, they are every bit as secure as any other scope mounting method.

Both of my rifles wear Leupold LER types with 1 1/5X magnification. They are both rock solid and reliable.

They were purpose built for heavy recoiling cartridges.

For folks with poor vision or aging eyes, this setup can be very effective and fills a very obvious niche with many shooters.

I have a friend in his seventies and we mounted an LER on his old Marlin, chambered for the 30-30Win. We used, what I believe is a Magwedge picatinny type rail that had a dovetail over the barrel and four holes over the receiver. It was quite long but rock solid.

He loves it, because with this scope set up, it's every bit as handy as the old rifle was with iron sights and very easy for him to transition to.

Not everyone's choice but it works well for him.

 

[CanuckCooper]

Not forseeing any problems with good optics breaking and needing to switch to your irons...totally get wanting both apertures and a scope on your rifle, but this works so much better for me that it just aint worth it over the compromise.

I agree completely for my use. The only optic I’ve broken was very cheap… Anything of quality has stood the test of time and and honest use. I’m a traditionalist in a lot of ways and like my guns with wood. My BDL with irons wasn’t out of need at all… just want.

 

[Joel]

Joel, that's just a personal opinion and if it works for you, fine.

However, if the ''LER" scopes are mounted properly, they are every bit as secure as any other scope mounting method.

Both of my rifles wear Leupold LER types with 1 1/5X magnification. They are both rock solid and reliable.

They were purpose built for heavy recoiling cartridges.

For folks with poor vision or aging eyes, this setup can be very effective and fills a very obvious niche with many shooters.

I have a friend in his seventies and we mounted an LER on his old Marlin, chambered for the 30-30Win. We used, what I believe is a Magwedge picatinny type rail that had a dovetail over the barrel and four holes over the receiver. It was quite long but rock solid.

He loves it, because with this scope set up, it's every bit as handy as the old rifle was with iron sights and very easy for him to transition to.

Not everyone's choice but it works well for him.

They work.

They just offer no advantages and only cons. Anyone who likes em can knock themselves out though, its their rifle. I'm sure they can be as solid and reliable as the next thing.

 

[pathfinder76]

If the scout concept was sound it would be widely used. It isn’t.

 

[Joel]

Definitely...

Completely understand the "old feller with tired eyes" but I wonder how he'd feel with some of today's lighter weight low power variables with good field of view mounted on his rifle...

Even for longer scopes, yeah it adds some weight, but a Ruger American with a 3-9x40 Accupoint is han-dee. 13 oz scope...Would have no issue slapping that on a Marlin 336 instead of a scout...or short bolt rifle...