George Nonte.

bearhunter

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Today, a young fellow came over to discuss an issue with his handloads.

He was getting huge velocity deviations between shots. Anywhere from 75-125 fps.

The cartridge he was loading was the venerable old 30-06, with 165-grain Hornady IL flat base Spire Point bullets.

He was using CCI200 primers in once-fired cases and 44 grains of H335. This powder is OK for this load but IMHO, not the best.

I remembered an article written by George C. Nonte, who passed on back in 1978.

Mr Nonte was a very outspoken gentleman. He and Elmer Kieth loved to get at each other, very respectfully of course.

They both came from very different backgrounds and had similar gritty personalities, but they were both walking/talking encyclopedias, very willing to give that knowledge to anyone who asked in a polite manner.

Mr Kieth was a cigar smoking/chewing cowboy in his early years and Mr Nonte went to West Point and graduated. Mr Keith was much older than Mr Nonte and was cowpoking around the time Mr Nonte was born.

Mr Nonte rose to the rank of major and was posted to the Ordnance Corp.

One of his projects was to establish loads for different cartridges used by the US Army.

There were all sorts of issues to deal with and he had to deduce why certain powders wouldn't work with specific bullet/cartridge case/primers under all conditions and come in at or under specified costs, while still maintaining specified velocities and accuracy.

One thing that stumped them for a long time was that certain powder blends, such as 4064, 3031, or BLC would give them radical velocity deviations between shots.

They had a very good idea why it was happening, but it was Mr Nonte's job to prove it.

Folks like you and I mostly worry about the cost of a few pounds or kegs of powder and a few thousand primers, etc.

For Mr Nonte, that was a pittance, when he had to come up with a compilation of components that would deliver specified performances, within his cost-per-delivered round parameters, as set by the Ordnance board's budget.

One of the major expense factors was the graphite coating used in the coatings of the powder granules, which controlled the burn rate and how much powder would be used in each case.

He had to balance all sorts of costs, such as case thicknesses which could be varied to use faster, less bulky blends of powder, and which combination would be cheaper but still within specified parameters all around.

What they found was a cartridge case needed to be at least 85% full of powder to achieve the velocity deviations they deemed acceptable; with the bullets they were using at the time.

BLC was a very cheap and easy powder to produce, however, in its trial stages it didn't fill the case enough while achieving the velocities required.

They were always getting unacceptable velocity deviations, not just from lot to lot but within the lots as well.

They determined the charge of BLC wasn't filling the case enough and causing erratic burns, because of excessive air space in the cartridge.

Depending on the position of the rifle, burn rates increased or decreased depending on how close the powder was to the primer.

It eventually led to the production and acceptance of BLC2, which we're familiar with today.

My young friend had a problem getting his head around this, so we pulled the bullets from the remaining cartridges, stuffed a grain of Dacron fiber over the powder, and then seated the bullets again.

He took them back to the range, only a klik away, shot them and his velocity spreads came down to an appx average of 25fps. The accuracy was much better.

This isn't a common issue these days, but it can and does still happen, especially with loads close to minimum.

I just thought I should throw this out there. I don't see much of this issue, but maybe some of you may have come across it as well.
 
So much of what was "common" knowledge has been lost in the annuls of time. The new source of knowledge has to be found in a youtube video of 2 minutes or less. I recall when entire books were written by men such as Nonte in exacting, precise explanation of a subject. I have a large library of shooting related books that are one of my greatest treasures. If anyone is less than 45 years of age they have probably never heard of the authors. It makes me smile a bit to sit here typing this and looking across the room I can see Nonte's Modern Handloading and several of O'Connors books !

Thanks for the post. It was.................refreshing.

dgb
 
It helps explains why some of the varmint cartridges like to be 'pushed' for best accuracy. This was a delightful post to read. Thank you!
 
I have Nonte's book "The Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions". It was extremely useful back in the 80's when a lot of European calibre ammo (especially non-corrosive) wasn't available and you had to make your own. It allowed me to reload for guns that you couldn't get factory ammo for.
 
Thanks bearhunter, good stuff.
I remember when a reloading friend brought up shooting from a highly elevated position. When having your firearm pointed downwards at a sharp angle, could affect the ballistics as the powder would be against the bullet and not the primer. Another was when making really light loads. If not enough gunpowder for the volume, your creating a bomb not ammunition. All interesting/important reloading information that I hadn't thought of. Thanks again for the post.
 
I get this in the lab. The NIJ IIIa velocity for a 240gr .44 mag bullet is 436 m/s. In the beginning I found that it took 18.5-18.6gr of h110 to achieve this which is pretty low (QL says about 13.5k psi). However after a while it felt too inconsistent and 11.6 of unique works much more consistently (33k psi).
 
Thanks bearhunter, good stuff.
I remember when a reloading friend brought up shooting from a highly elevated position. When having your firearm pointed downwards at a sharp angle, could affect the ballistics as the powder would be against the bullet and not the primer. Another was when making really light loads. If not enough gunpowder for the volume, your creating a bomb not ammunition. All interesting/important reloading information that I hadn't thought of. Thanks again for the post.

If you have at least 85% of the case volume utilized, even if it's with a non powder substitute, used to hold the powder close to the primer, Kabooms shouldn't happen.

Where people definitely notice issues with lighter charges and the powder up against the bullet, with the air cavity in front of the primer is when they're shooting from tree stands or elevated positions, as you mention.

All of these scenarios and more could easily happen in the field while hunting or on the battlefield.

Just about guaranteed to happen right when you least need it to happen.
 
"They determined the charge of BLC wasn't filling the case enough and causing erratic burns, because of excessive air space in the cartridge.

Depending on the position of the rifle, burn rates increased or decreased depending on how close the powder was to the primer.

It eventually led to the production and acceptance of BLC2, which we're familiar with today."

What are you trying to say with this? The creation of BLC-(2) has nothing to do with absolutely anything in your entire post.
 
"They determined the charge of BLC wasn't filling the case enough and causing erratic burns, because of excessive air space in the cartridge.

Depending on the position of the rifle, burn rates increased or decreased depending on how close the powder was to the primer.

It eventually led to the production and acceptance of BLC2, which we're familiar with today."

What are you trying to say with this? The creation of BLC-(2) has nothing to do with absolutely anything in your entire post.

You're right, my bad.

At the time I wrote the post, BLC2 was on my mind.

The original blend started as WC846 and was made for the British for use in the 303 British case.

After WWII, there was a lot of WC846 being sold as surplus and Bruce Hogdon bought it up and labeled it BLC.

It became very popular with the general handloading circles of the day and he started producing a close duplicate, which was labeled BLC-2

I went back through my books, and couldn't find the original bit which named the particular powder he was involved in the manufacture of at the time.

Again, this is a guess but I believe it was called IMR1185 and was going to be the standard powder for the 30-06, as it was much more suitable for gas-operated firearms, such as the Garand which was being developed at the time.

Thanx for pointing this discrepancy out. I should have checked before printing powder type.

My bad.
 
Using a partial filler is not all that uncommon today when using smokeless powders in obsolete black powder cartridges. I use a pinch of clothes dryer lint in cartridges like 38-56 and 45-70 (which is not obsolete). The lint does not have to fill the case, it only has to be enough to keep the powder against the primer. I poke it down onto the primer with a pencil and that seems to work fine for me

cheers mooncoon
 
Using a partial filler is not all that uncommon today when using smokeless powders in obsolete black powder cartridges. I use a pinch of clothes dryer lint in cartridges like 38-56 and 45-70 (which is not obsolete). The lint does not have to fill the case, it only has to be enough to keep the powder against the primer. I poke it down onto the primer with a pencil and that seems to work fine for me

cheers mooncoon

Used to use some dacron I liberated from the spousal unit's sewing box for the same purpose. - dan
 
Using a partial filler is not all that uncommon today when using smokeless powders in obsolete black powder cartridges. I use a pinch of clothes dryer lint in cartridges like 38-56 and 45-70 (which is not obsolete). The lint does not have to fill the case, it only has to be enough to keep the powder against the primer. I poke it down onto the primer with a pencil and that seems to work fine for me

cheers mooncoon

Dryer lint eh. Thanks for the suggestion. I don't currently play with loads that need filler but I'm gonna fill this idea away for the future in case I do start down that road.
 
Dryer lint eh. Thanks for the suggestion. I don't currently play with loads that need filler but I'm gonna fill this idea away for the future in case I do start down that road.

A cheap pillow from wherever will give you enough fill to last a very, very long time.
 
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