German Drilling in 9.3x53R

fuzzy39 - I must have missed something - your last post - you ran 7.62x53R brass into the dies and got 9.3x53R Finn out - so how was that done - the expander would have swelled out the neck, I presume - but what would have moved the shoulder forward - to create a 9.3x57R Swiss?? Just going from your pictures. I have a long chamber in a 9.3x57 - I have to either fire form (COW) or expand to straight wall, then size back down to get shoulder positioned correctly. Did not understand how you did that part??
 
Potashminer said:
fuzzy39 - I must have missed something - your last post - you ran 7.62x53R brass into the dies and got 9.3x53R Finn out - so how was that done - the expander would have swelled out the neck, I presume - but what would have moved the shoulder forward - to create a 9.3x57R Swiss?? Just going from your pictures. I have a long chamber in a 9.3x57 - I have to either fire form (COW) or expand to straight wall, then size back down to get shoulder positioned correctly. Did not understand how you did that part??
Click to expand...

I ran a piece of 7.62x53R brass through the "9.3X53R Swiss" die and it simply necked the the brass up to create a piece of 9x3x53R Finn brass....
Once I think about it again.... I guess the dies could still be the Swiss version.....with the shoulder on the Finn being so far back compared to the Swiss brass, it may have just ran through the die and necked it up without changing the shoulder....

Shoot, I may have just wasted some money on post....lol.
 
Feel like and idiot now....CH4D will probably agree, lol.

So would the experts out there recommend I fireform with the cream of wheat method (after neck up first)? Or load up some lighter 9.3x53 Finn loads and fire those as it should do the same?

Another thought I had was to neck some 7.62x53R brass up to .358, load those up with some pistol bullets and Reloder 7 data for the 358 winchester and fireform with that? This whole thing is pushing my reloading limits, haha.

Thanks for the advice.
 
I will compare to my attempts to create 9.3x57 from 8x57 brass. And, every reason from a chamber cast that this chamber is longer than "normal". So, if I just sized with 9.3 expander, I am quite sure the shoulder on the case is too far back - fire forming won't help, so far as I can tell - the firing pin strike will just push the case forward in the chamber - case walls will grab chamber walls near front and the head will get stretched back - incipient case head separation, I think. I am quite sure I went up to a .015" shim between bolt face and case head, and the bolt still closed - so a converted new 8x57 case opened up to 9.3 neck is too short in that chamber.

So from others who have dealt with this on Internet - take 8x57 brass and expand neck with 9.3 expander - do not even try to size the brass - so 9.3 expander half way out of the die - just to make the neck bigger. Then use expander for 41 magnum handgun round and create basically a straight wall case from the 8x57 parent case. Now set the 9.3x57 die - at least 1/2" too high - size a case - starts to bring 9.3 shoulder down and reform that brass. Turn die down several turns - re-size again - now try in rifle - bolt won't close - case shoulder too far ahead - back in die - 1/4 turn more - re-size, etc. until about a 1/16" inch turn on die makes difference between bolt closing or not closing. When bolt just so closes, I know I have the reformed case shoulder just about exactly at that bolt face / chamber headspace distance - is not going to be any case lengthening / any possible case head separation when fire formed - either for real with a bullet or with COW. Seems to need the "real" nearly full meal deal load to get the shoulder blown out completely and perfectly.

Subsequent loads - almost always are "partial" full length sized - can see the mark come down the neck - and I re-set that sizing die every session - to chamber into that rifle. My cases are only used in one rifle, even if several on hand for same chambering.

I maybe should clarify - even though the case was previously fired in that rifle's chamber, during the "partial sizing" step, as the walls get squished in a little bit - is not uncommon for that shoulder to be moved forward - so will be a point where that case no longer does chamber - shoulder is pushed too far forward - so just a couple more very small turns on die and re-try in that rifle, until that shoulder gets pushed back just enough to just so chamber.
 
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Thanks for the info potashminer.

I have already necked up the 7.62x53r brass to 9.3. There is a long way for the shoulder to go forward. Being that it is rimmed i should not run into issues pushing the brass forward with the firing pin. I was wondering if people would recommend cream of wheat load and filler or just load up a light 9.3x53r Finn load with bullet and see if that fireform a the brass.

Thanks for the help.
 
If you are dealing with a rimmed case, might want to read up on the "o-ring" trick used for 303 British - is a way to ensure that the cartridge case face is hard against your bolt face when you fire form - I do not know what your headspace for that rim is - might be "generous". Idea is that the firing pin strike will run that case as far forward as it can go - as the powder ignites, the front end of the case (thinnest walls) will grab chamber walls first and hold - a smidgeon later, the pressure will "blow back" the case face to be tight on the bolt face - the case may or may not stretch enough - can often see a groove inside the case just ahead of the solid case head. Was not an issue for military - they did not care about reloading that case - just wanted it so it did not split, and then on to next "new" round.

I have done COW fire forming to turn 7mm Rem Mag into useable cases for my 458 Win Mag - does not get the case completely reformed, but close enough for the 458 Win Mag expander to enter - seems as if final "complete" forming occurs when fired with a real bullet. And, despite what I wrote above, I did just rely on the belt to fire form them - so I "got away with it".
 
Even though your case has a rim, is usually desirable to transfer the fit of that case in your chamber, to the shoulder - to get best, closest fit possible. Especially on some WWI British 303, that can be significant difference. Might or might not be an issue on your drilling.
 
Well, it’s getting closer to go time!!! I loaded up some brass to fireform after necking up the 7.62x53R Finn brass. I used 10 grains of Red Dot under cream of rice and a Ivory soap plug. It worked beautifully.

Then to the loading…. Looking at various sources of data I settled on a low pressure Norma load for the 9.3x57 with a 286 gr Bullet. I used the minimum charge for the 286 but loaded a 270 gr Speer. The case capacity of the 9.3 Swiss is virtually identical to the 9.3 x57. My Norma guide lists the pressure at 38000 PSI in using the 286 gr bullet in the 9.3x57. My pressure should be nice and low. It’s not like these drilling were not made for higher pressures as I also shoot one in 7x65R which has a factory pressure around 50000psi.

Anyway, can’t wait to pop a few off!!
 

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The moment of truth!!!
Tonight I took my oldest kid to hockey practice, laced his skates and was on my way to the range. I got there 20 minutes after sunset so I knew I would maybe get time to test fire a round and maybe shoot one group….

I grabbed some leather work gloves from the truck, my safety glasses and loaded up a round. I gingerly held the drilling away from my body and pulled the trigger…. Bang! All my finger intact, gun intact. Brass slid out as sweetly as could be and looked perfect. I quickly grabbed my bags as I was now around 25 minutes post sunset and under the tin cover of the range, there was minimal light to lock up the open sights on the black inch target at 25 yards.

I banged off a round behind the gun… low a couple inches and one inch right. Another round about a half inch away and a third touching the first!!! I decided the old beauty had done her job for the night!

I packed up and headed back to watch the last half hour of my sons practice! I know have a starting place to go from. NExt is to chronograph this current load and maybe step up the powder a bit. My other option is to find some 232 or 250 grain Bullets to load up using the exisitng 9.3 Finn data I have.

Final test will be using the old girl from my stand for my cow elk this Fall! Maybe take a boar or 2 if I’m lucky and make it feel like a true European experience.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement with the project. I have learned a lot and increased my comfort with these drilling’s immensely!

I’ll keep you posted with updates!
 

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Took the Drilling to the range again to do some chronograph work with the magnetospeed. The 270 grain Speers averaged 1927 FPS. Still shooting. About 2 inches below bullseye at 25 yards with the open sites. Likely due to the fact that original 9.3 Swiss rounds were loaded with 200 grain Bullets. Still kept 3 shots in under an inch.

Also have a case of 2.5 inch 12 gauge shotshells on the way from tradex. I had reviewed the proof marks again and the shot gun would be chambered for the 12g x 65mm….

I had put a couple boxes of real light 2 3/4 in loads through when I first got it with no issues. That said, won’t do it again that I know now, lol.
 
fuzzy39 said:
Took the Drilling to the range again to do some chronograph work with the magnetospeed. The 270 grain Speers averaged 1927 FPS. Still shooting. About 2 inches below bullseye at 25 yards with the open sites. Likely due to the fact that original 9.3 Swiss rounds were loaded with 200 grain Bullets. Still kept 3 shots in under an inch.

Also have a case of 2.5 inch 12 gauge shotshells on the way from tradex. I had reviewed the proof marks again and the shot gun would be chambered for the 12g x 65mm….

I had put a couple boxes of real light 2 3/4 in loads through when I first got it with no issues. That said, won’t do it again that I know now, lol.
Click to expand...
Ooops. Yeah, those are for 70mm chambers. Very good grouping and it'll probably get that at 100y with sights so designed... regardless, practical and effective as is.
 
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