German Soldiers Don’t Trust Their Battle Rifle

Many countries will procure sub-optimal systems simply because they were developed and/or made in the country. Canada is a prime example of that, although small arms aren't in that category (well almost)

The Army's LSVW is a prime example of what many soldiers call a piece of junk. Based on an Italian design, it was fabricated in that hotbed of cutting vehicle technology, Kelowna BC. Based on first hand experience in DND procurement, major factors imposed on the worker bees are:

who the company is;

what region they are located in; and

in what federal riding are they located.

We would all like Canadian dollars to stay in Canada, but not when it comes to purchasing bad kit just so a Minister, or MP can crow about it at the next election.

I've heard the new Ranger rifle and the 9 mm pistol replacement ran up against the 10-year agreement Canada has with Colt where Colt is the exclusive supplier of small arms to the Canadian military. If what I heard is correct, foreign firms would have had to licence Colt so Colt could manufacture the new Ranger rifle and a new side arm in Canada. Large firearms manufacturers understandably wouldn't give up trade secrets to a competitor so the projects stalled. I can't speak to issues surrounding the G36 or FAMAS (and let's not forget the SA80!!) but their procurement was likely driven by domestic political forces insisting on national procurement. I won't even mention the Ross rifle. :redface:

Interesting isn't it the SAS looked at the SA80 and then went with the a M16 family rifle. When you're on a two-way range you don't really care in which riding your piece of kit was made just as long as it keeps Mummies # 1 son (daughter) alive. :d
 
If we all sit down and think about how a big army shoots their rifles most soldiers only shoot a handful of boxes to qualify a year at 20X20 targets. I am not surprised, under this kind of condition, no one has actually ever noticed any accuracy issue.

The G36 barrel is not skinnier than the TAVOR barrel, or the original M16A1 barrel. It is really not a barrel issue IMHO.

Beretta learned from HK, and isolatedthe barrel trunnion in the ARX160 from the plastic receiver with a ceramic web. Obviously, fluting the barrel extension is not enough. There needs to be an insulation to go in between.
 
I found the quote:

The French FAMAS rifle has been a disaster. Its delayed blowback action is powerful enough to rip apart regular NATO brass-cased 5.56x45mm cases and its rifling does not stabilize the modern 5.56mm NATO bullets. The French Army is forced to use steel cased 5.56mm ammunition, thus eliminating the advantages of using the same cartridge as their NATO and EU allies. It that was not bad enough, the ammunition is no longer made in France and has ben to imported. A French journalist told me that China manufactures steel-cased 5.56mm for French military (I will say that another French journalist I spoke to disputes that ammunition is imported from China). - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...replace-the-famas-rifle/#sthash.cKrxlgTm.dpuf
 
Yes these are horrible rifles, please put them on semi auto lower receivers, and send them to me please. I will safely dispose of them. :)

I find it hard to believe after 20 years this comes up. Sounds to me like they just want a new rifle and are trying to whine about anything they can. Also I am struggling to take some conscripts opinions too seriously. This could definitely be a training issue since the KSK haven't complained about their G36K. Who knows, maybe I am wrong and the gun shoots all over the place. Only one way to find out, please send 20 upper receivers and 10 lower receivers to me :) I will report back my findings.
 
They didn't choose the M4 in Germany because they would use higher rates of fire and encounter obvious problems with it, the G36 although not as gunfighter friendly as the M4 style rifle is and was unmatched in many departments of excellence for years, this is political in nature. If HK cut costs of polymer receiver then there is a major problem, if built to spec it is fine, that being said originally there were more metal parts in the G36 that would help prevent zero shift.
 
Google translation of part of the article:


The criticism of the G36 can Bundeswehr soldiers who were involved with the assault rifle in combat, not understand. "We have found no significant differences in fire fighting," says a staff sergeant, who was on site for the heaviest fighting of the Bundeswehr on Good Friday 2010.

Lorenz Hemicker Author: Lorenz Hemicker, duty editor at FAZ.NET. Follow:

At that time a German patrol near the northern Afghan city of Kunduz had fallen into an ambush by the Taliban, as a result developed a ten hours long struggle and four German soldiers were killed by the insurgents. The soldiers fired by his own admission between six and ten magazines per weapon. A magazine containing 30 cartridges. Neither on that Good Friday even in later firefights have ever felt a soldier his squad uncomfortable with his weapon, the paratroopers on. "We have never met the right targeted and left."

A shooting instructor, who also denied battles with his train in Afghanistan, says the gun was for the purpose for which they were purchased, still perfectly suitable. During the fire fighting it always was possible to fight the enemy on the battle typical distances between 300 and 400 meters, even at high temperatures accurately.

The publicly expressed in recent months obvious criticism was based on false assumptions. Use the G36 as a machine gun to hold down the opponent was "nonsense"; as the sergeant major. It was never built to deliver hundreds of shots within minutes. We Concerning operative with the MG3 and MG4 on the specially developed weapons. Would the G36 but so used like a machine gun, a physical deformation including the observed in the most recent testing precision shortcomings in the assault rifle was as predictable as that of comparable brands of other manufacturers.

The performance limits of the weapon have been known for many years, according to statements from soldiers, however. "We have sometimes four magazines empty shot in rapid succession," said a soldier who was stationed in the army in 2012 outpost OP North in Afghanistan. "After the target practice, the last magazine was partly no longer be removed from the assault rifles," said the corporal. The rifle had been then scrap. The problems were then already been well known. You've finally turned to the Parliamentary Commissioner. But nothing has changed.

Why the weapon is so controversial in public, the use of experienced soldiers can not understand. "The allegations are bull####," says a paratrooper at the end of the conversation. "It's not about the gun. It's about politics. "
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Sounds kinda like the US report on the battle of Wanat, when the M4 ( and SAW ) failed.
 
So is the rifle faulty because some soldiers used them as machine guns? Or is the soldiers training at fault for them mistaking their assault rifles for machine guns?

Im thinking these articles and studies are nothing more then sensational hype that is politicaly driven. Im willing to bet the G36 is 99.9% adequate for its needs if used properly.
 
flashman said:
Annnnnnd it's gone...
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I suggest getting this as a replacement ;)
AK12-1.jpg


Funny part is that the Germans are more likely than any other Western nation to consider that idea. Historically, there has been a lot of back and forth of ideas between those two countries (and/or their predecessors). Actually, I'd most likely go with the M4 (or derivative) platform if I were doing the procurement. Everybody and their grandmother knows how to make those and the current iteration is very reliable in the field. Took a few decades but they got there.
 
I wonder what effect the problems with the G36 will have on the acceptance of military rifles with polymer receivers. I am sure a lot of existing end users maybe having second thoughts, which may lead to further business opportunities for Colt Canada!
 
rhino62 said:
I wonder what effect the problems with the G36 will have on the acceptance of military rifles with polymer receivers. I am sure a lot of existing end users maybe having second thoughts, which may lead to further business opportunities for Colt Canada!
Click to expand...

or the 416a5
 
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