German Sport Guns GSG9 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine

[Suther]

pistol vs rifle on a semi, not lever or revolver so let me ask you this, a VZ61 is as small as a pistol without the attachment for a overfolder what would the rcmp classify it as?

Keltec r50 has a stock. The R literally stands for Rifle, and it's marked "R50 Rifle" on the gun. Yet it's classified as a handgun.

The action type doesn't matter. There are examples of semi auto, bolt action, pump action, lever action, revolver, and break action that are handguns, and examples of all these action types that are not.

My point is you can't make assumptions based on their US classification or even what the manufacturer says, because the lab doesn't give a #### about any of that and will call it what they want to call it regardless. You're trying to apply logic to something that is illogical.

I'm not saying they will definitely call the ATI pistol version a rifle. I'm saying nobody will know until the lab decides.

 

[OkayShooter]

Keltec r50 has a stock. The R literally stands for Rifle, and it's marked "R50 Rifle" on the gun. Yet it's classified as a handgun.

The action type doesn't matter. There are examples of semi auto, bolt action, pump action, lever action guns, revolver, and break action that are handguns, and examples of all these action types that are not.

My point is you can't make assumptions based on their US classification or even what the manufacturer says, because the lab doesn't give a #### about any of that and will call it what they want to call it regardless. You're trying to apply logic to something that is illogical.

But only has a 16.1" barrel. Barrel length alone prevents it from being a NR, dispite them calling it a rifle.
Crosman 2250 they call it a carbine, has stock and longer barrel, but in Canada they still consider it the same as a 2240, which is a handgun.

I can put a 20inch barrel and stock on my TC contender and it's still a restricted handgun.

 

[Suther]

But only has a 16.1" barrel. Barrel length alone prevents it from being a NR, dispite them calling it a rifle.
Crosman 2250 they call it a carbine, has stock and longer barrel, but in Canada they still consider it the same as a 2240, which is a handgun.

I can put a 20inch barrel and stock on my TC contender and it's still a restricted handgun.

B&T tp9. TP stands for tactical pistol. Has a 5" barrel. Yet it's a Rifle.
Keltec r50. R stands for Rifle. Has a 16" barrel. Yet it's a Handgun.

It makes no sense. This is my whole point. The decisions the lab makes are not based on any logical process, so trying to guess what something will be classified based on logic is pointless.

And we're still not talking about nr vs r, I don't know why you keep circling back to that.

 

[OkayShooter]

B&T tp9. Rifle.
Keltec r50. Handgun.

It makes no sense.

And we're still not talking about nr vs r, I don't know why you keep circling back to that.

But what is the legal classification, not what it idenify as. Why do you keep brining up manual actions when we are talking about semi autos.

 

[Thorsbear]

Here is the 7.5" model
https ://www.action-shop24.de/GSG-GSG-9-Schwarz-9-mm-Luger-Selbstladepistole/909.00.01

Looks almost identical to the GSG16-9
Barrel is 7.5"
Cost 799.99 Eu

In Germany the standard GSG-16 is 499.99 Eu so we might see it here for $800 - $900 cdn

 

[Suther]

Here is the 7.5" model
https ://www.action-shop24.de/GSG-GSG-9-Schwarz-9-mm-Luger-Selbstladepistole/909.00.01

Looks almost identical to the GSG16-9
Barrel is 7.5"
Cost 799.99 Eu

In Germany the standard GSG-16 is 499.99 Eu so we might see it here for $800 - $900 cdn

That looks fun.

 

[Curtton]

Keltec r50 has a stock. The R literally stands for Rifle, and it's marked "R50 Rifle" on the gun. Yet it's classified as a handgun.

The action type doesn't matter. There are examples of semi auto, bolt action, pump action, lever action, revolver, and break action that are handguns, and examples of all these action types that are not.

My point is you can't make assumptions based on their US classification or even what the manufacturer says, because the lab doesn't give a #### about any of that and will call it what they want to call it regardless. You're trying to apply logic to something that is illogical.

I'm not saying they will definitely call the ATI pistol version a rifle. I'm saying nobody will know until the lab decides.

thats one thing we agree on, the lab will decide,lol.... but i still say without a stock it cant be class as a rifle.

 

[hsatimmy]

If anyone wants to get an inside look at how the lab does inspections and handles information, look up the big court case about the OIC and read through Murray Smith's testimony.

Talk about illogical

 

[TechNeck]

To bad they didnt have an ftr for it before c21 took effect... so we will never see it in canada under the current law... cant bring in new designs if its a semi...

And if they try it will forever get a prohib ftr number... which means even if the law is reversed the gun will be prohib...

I have a buddy that would love this to go with his gsg16

 

[Thorsbear]

To bad they didnt have an ftr for it before c21 took effect... so we will never see it in canada under the current law... cant bring in new designs if its a semi...

And if they try it will forever get a prohib ftr number... which means even if the law is reversed the gun will be prohib...

I have a buddy that would love this to go with his gsg16

Could it come in under the GSG16 as a variation?

If the RCMP considers that the GSG5 is an MP5 variant then they must accept the GSG9 as a variant of the GSG16 which has an FTR

 

[Suther]

To bad they didnt have an ftr for it before c21 took effect... so we will never see it in canada under the current law... cant bring in new designs if its a semi...

And if they try it will forever get a prohib ftr number... which means even if the law is reversed the gun will be prohib...

I have a buddy that would love this to go with his gsg16

Not true. If they repeal the part of the definition of prohibited firearm that is relevant then any guns banned under that definition would no longer be prohibited. That will require legislation, so the CPC needs to win a majority and they'll still get stalled in the senate so it'll take a while, but its very much doable.

(e) a firearm that is not a handgun and that

(i) discharges centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(ii) was originally designed with a detachable cartridge magazine with a capacity of six cartridges or more, and

(iii) is designed and manufactured on or after the day on which this paragraph comes into force; (arme à feu prohibée)

Could it come in under the GSG16 as a variation?

If the RCMP considers that the GSG5 is an MP5 variant then they must accept the GSG9 as a variant of the GSG16 which has an FTR

Must? lmfao

 

[hsatimmy]

To bad they didnt have an ftr for it before c21 took effect... so we will never see it in canada under the current law... cant bring in new designs if its a semi...

And if they try it will forever get a prohib ftr number... which means even if the law is reversed the gun will be prohib...

I have a buddy that would love this to go with his gsg16

No not quite.


It would be prohibited due to legislative change, but if that changes the status would automatically change.


Unless of course the RCMP decide the law is different for becoming legal vs making illegal. That's what happened when the OIC prescribing the vz and Swiss arms as prohib in 2014 got reversed, that's what should happen this round too.

It lists the reason it is prohibited in the frt itself.

If the prohibition orders of past disappeared from reference, they would become NR if simplified classification is passed

 

[hsatimmy]

Could it come in under the GSG16 as a variation?

If the RCMP considers that the GSG5 is an MP5 variant then they must accept the GSG9 as a variant of the GSG16 which has an FTR

Murray Smith was led down a line of questioning where he could somehow rationalize a firearm could, in his opinion, be a variant of a firearm that does not exist yet.

I can't look it up now but it was something related to the AK and k98 having to do with the Mossberg blaze

 

[Curtton]

Could it come in under the GSG16 as a variation?

If the RCMP considers that the GSG5 is an MP5 variant then they must accept the GSG9 as a variant of the GSG16 which has an FTR

i tend to agree. GSG5 and GSG522 were based on appearances and there were significant changes to the GSG16 so the 9mm looks like GSG16, it practically shares 75% of the parts.

 

[TechNeck]

No not quite.


It would be prohibited due to legislative change, but if that changes the status would automatically change.


Unless of course the RCMP decide the law is different for becoming legal vs making illegal. That's what happened when the OIC prescribing the vz and Swiss arms as prohib in 2014 got reversed, that's what should happen this round too.

It lists the reason it is prohibited in the frt itself.

If the prohibition orders of past disappeared from reference, they would become NR if simplified classification is passed

Automatically.... you have more faith in the rcmp lab then i do.... mabye after years of petitionioning it might get changed....they added all those "variant" with no shed of reasoning and i have yet to see one appealed successfully...

 

[hsatimmy]

Automatically.... you have more faith in the rcmp lab then i do.... mabye after years of petitionioning it might get changed....they added all those "variant" with no shed of reasoning and i have yet to see one appealed successfully...

Like i said, Thats what should happen, unless they decide it is different. And if the new classification system is passed it will be a crime to not comply

They do not have an appeals process and ATIPs requesting information about this have returned no results yet.


If i recall correctly a Wolverine backed firearm was prohibited until they were able to get that changed under review, but the classification was less than a year old