German WW 2 rifle information

[7ECA]

Don't kid yourself. There was lots brought back.

You're gonna ask yourself, how did the world exist without computers as your little world inside your head implodes...

No one said nothing was brought back by Canadians, but rather I mentioned that fact that some quantity of the stuff that was being brought back was dumped by soldiers fearing the wrath of the brass. Saying no answers exist in books or online is, well, interesting. Says something about you indeed...

Funny, I've witnessed the rise of the internet; still like to get information from published sources - but the internet is a source of convenience. Trust, but verify, and all that. You do realize that computers have existed since the '40s - mind you, not in the form people would recognize today, but electronic machines used for complex calculations and so forth.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Yes I'm sure you had an ENIAC in you basement in the 1940's, boy genius!
Your comment about computers in the 40’s is irrelevant to the conversation
and was only used for ballistic tables. Stay on topic and no more blowhard
Comments! Lol

Keep the CGN know it all coming! LOL

 

[Mr. Dynamite]

Don't kid yourself. There was lots brought back. The good stuff is salted away in collections and never makes the light of day. Depends when you were born and who you knew. For the Real Young Google Foo Manchoo's of today looking for every possible answer on the computer or book, that answer doesn't exist, just remember, hardly anyone from that era used a computer and that generation is few and far between. Not all information gets posted like a rumor on face book. Sometimes it was a face to face conversation with the vet.

You're gonna ask yourself, how did the world exist without computers as your little world inside your head implodes...

Was merely noting that the story behind how bring backs made it into Canada is not often encountered, and as you mentioned, not readily found in book or online. Was not questioning if souvenirs were actually brought back. Of course they were. But for every story of one brought back there must be a dozen or more stories of trips up to the main deck at night on the way back over. Sorry, did not mean to agitate any internet warriors.

 

[bearhunter]

God that's heartbreaking to see

No, actually it isn't heartbreaking to see. If all of the rifles used during WWII were left intact, they wouldn't command the prices they do today.

That rifle is restorable and with a bit of effort and patience all of the appropriate furniture, etc can be accessed.

OP, your uncle took a great rifle, that he may or may not have brought back. Such rifles could be purchased by the crate, right up to the mid seventies, with all accessories for around $20 Canadian. Enfields and Lee Enfields were cheaper. Krag carbines were sold at Hudson's Bay and Marshall Wells for $17.50 Can.

It doesn't have a duffle cut on the stock, so if it was brought back as a souvenir, there should have been some documentation, which could have been lost. I've seen hundreds of similar rifles since the sixties.

Every gas station, hardware store and even some rural grocery stores had them. There were huge businesses in Europe, Canada, US etc that cut those down in exactly the same manner as your rifle. All sorts of after market accessories were available at reasonable prices.

I've been duped myself by the story on more than one occasion, sometimes embarrassed later.

If it weren't for rifles such as the one in your pic, many Canadians wouldn't have been able to afford to hunt or shoot. Surplus ammo for that rifle was cheap. Shipping was usually more expensive on a crate of ammo than the cost of the ammo. If you bought 5 x 880 round crates, they cost $40 and it cost $42 to ship it by rail. Ask me how I know.

That's a fine inheritance. Leave it as is and shoot it. Enjoy. Present value on that rifle is around $400, only because it's restorable.

Cartridge it's chambered for is 8x57 Mauser or 7.92x57 (they're the same) With proper European ammo, it's right up there with the 30-06 in effectiveness on game.

 

[7ECA]

Sorry, did not mean to agitate any internet warriors.

Apparently they've now found the milsurp section, I guess nothing is sacred on CGN...

 

[Coyote Ugly]

You have to remember too that the collectors starting out today are 75 years late to the party of collecting WW2 bring backs.

Not all returning soldiers were scared of the threat of doing an army of occupation for another year or two if caught with returning with any firearm. Some were. Many took the chance.

A friend of my Fathers recalls buying and selling Lugers for $5 right after the war.

Lots of guns have changed hands over the years. Many have ended up in the States and Europe as you see worldwide buyers gobbling the good stuff up at gun shows.
As an example, you see many RCMP Winchester lever rifles for sale in the States that were originally in Canada as well as many other firearms. How did they get there? The US Dollar and Euro. Sadly, your potential K98 that you were looking for was exported years ago!
You'll see their USA business cards laying out on an empty gunshow table that say buying collections, or run into German buyers at a gunshow on a buying spree.

I can see how the rumor or lie starts by the young collector that Canada does not have many bring backs simply because the inexperienced collector starting out cannot find anything other than refurbed RC K98's. And when a young collector reads the rumor, he propagates the lie by posting the rumor over and over on the internet, then that lie gets remembered as the truth. Just like the Sten gun myth told at the shows!

The lie festers and spreads like Syphilis!

Now you know the rest of the story!

Was merely noting that the story behind how bring backs made it into Canada is not often encountered, and as you mentioned, not readily found in book or online. Was not questioning if souvenirs were actually brought back. Of course they were. But for every story of one brought back there must be a dozen or more stories of trips up to the main deck at night on the way back over. Sorry, did not mean to agitate any internet warriors.

 

[MiG25]

Don't kid yourself. There was lots brought back. The good stuff is salted away in collections and never makes the light of day. Depends when you were born and who you knew. For the Real Young Google Foo Manchoo's of today looking for every possible answer on the computer or book, that answer doesn't exist, just remember, hardly anyone from that era used a computer and that generation is few and far between. Not all information gets posted like a rumor on face book. Sometimes it was a face to face conversation with the vet.

You're gonna ask yourself, how did the world exist without computers as your little world inside your head implodes...

I remember reading an article in the last 80's in, IIRC, Outdoor Canada, the Author stated that he brought back two Mausers that he liberated.

 

[antiqueguy]

a lot of people seem to forget that these were just a cheap rifle back in the 40's/50's/60's and were much cheaper than a new sporting rifle. so taking some cheap surplus(or bring back) and turning it into a handy sporting rifle that you could put food on the table with was common place as money was very tight for a lot of people and this the only option for a lot of people.

I can respect sportized military rifles from this time frame because people had a need and they filled it with a cheap rifle that at the time was nothing special.

there is really no need to sportize anything anymore good example there was a guy in my local CT a couple of years ago that was looking at an $800 Israeli or RC Mauser and was talking about sportizing it I asked him way and he said they were more accurate. I told him looking at the remchesters in the next cabinet over that these were just as accurate and around the same price or cheaper and that most bolt action sporting rifles are pretty much biased off the Mauser action and he seemed a little lost after that. I also told him that we sould respect milsurps now because once their gone their gone.

 

[can14]

A lot of stuff was collected up before it left Canada for Europe. Inglis stuff etc
This type of stuff was sold into collections in the 60's and 70's
There also was a lot of stuff people brought back WW1 WW2 Korea , Victoria used to be a good
place to find stuff around 1968/69. Robinson's had a lot of it

 

[7ECA]

I can see how the rumor or lie starts by the young collector that Canada does not have many bring backs simply because the inexperienced collector starting out cannot find anything other than refurbed RC K98's. And when a young collector reads the rumor, he propagates the lie by posting the rumor over and over on the internet, then that lie gets remembered as the truth.

Boy, that's impressive; I've managed to start and fully propagate the myth that there were no items brought back by Canadian soldiers from any conflict, ever.

Give me a break, I'm posting what has been mentioned numerous times before, including by veterans themselves - that soldiers were told in no uncertain terms that they would be punished if caught with "liberated" items at the docks. Did this stop all trophies from making it back to Canada? Of course not. But, some quantity of items would have been disposed of by soldiers not wanting the hassle if they were searched.

Of course you can still find all sorts of military surplus items in Canada, but the market is much more competitive than it used to be. You've got to pay to play, as it were, and buy items when they appear - wait and the item will inevitably be bought by someone else. Buying an item based off of a story, especially if it inflates the price markedly above similar items is a gamble, at best.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

I knew you'd be back! LOL

Boy, that's impressive; I've managed to start and fully propagate the myth that there were no items brought back by Canadian soldiers from any conflict, ever.

Give me a break, I'm posting what has been mentioned numerous times before, including by veterans themselves - that soldiers were told in no uncertain terms that they would be punished if caught with "liberated" items at the docks. Did this stop all trophies from making it back to Canada? Of course not. But, some quantity of items would have been disposed of by soldiers not wanting the hassle if they were searched.

Of course you can still find all sorts of military surplus items in Canada, but the market is much more competitive than it used to be. You've got to pay to play, as it were, and buy items when they appear - wait and the item will inevitably be bought by someone else. Buying an item based off of a story, especially if it inflates the price markedly above similar items is a gamble, at best.

 

[cornelunc]

You have to remember too that the collectors starting out today are 75 years late to the party of collecting WW2 bring backs.

Not all returning soldiers were scared of the threat of doing an army of occupation for another year or two if caught with returning with any firearm. Some were. Many took the chance.

A friend of my Fathers recalls buying and selling Lugers for $5 right after the war.

Lots of guns have changed hands over the years. Many have ended up in the States and Europe as you see worldwide buyers gobbling the good stuff up at gun shows.
As an example, you see many RCMP Winchester lever rifles for sale in the States that were originally in Canada as well as many other firearms. How did they get there? The US Dollar and Euro. Sadly, your potential K98 that you were looking for was exported years ago!
You'll see their USA business cards laying out on an empty gunshow table that say buying collections, or run into German buyers at a gunshow on a buying spree.

I can see how the rumor or lie starts by the young collector that Canada does not have many bring backs simply because the inexperienced collector starting out cannot find anything other than refurbed RC K98's. And when a young collector reads the rumor, he propagates the lie by posting the rumor over and over on the internet, then that lie gets remembered as the truth. Just like the Sten gun myth told at the shows!

The lie festers and spreads like Syphilis!

Now you know the rest of the story!

The Germans collectors come at the Gun Shows in Canada to buy guns?????

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Yes, I've run into them at gun shows whether they be collectors or dealers. Spending big and buying quantity.

The Germans collectors come at the Gun Shows in Canada to buy guns?????

 

[cigarman]

No one said nothing was brought back by Canadians

Right - aside from the fact your comments were not on topic of the thread - what you (7ECA) said

Unless your Uncle happened to be an officer, I find it hard to believe that he personally brought back this rifle. Americans had no problem hauling back half of Europe, Canadians on the other hand were told in no uncertain terms that bad things would happen if they were caught with "looted" items. This speech was often given on the troop transport back to Canada, a day or two prior to docking, and was the signal to dispose of ones "ill-gotten" gains overboard. Rumour has it that one should dredge the approaches to many Eastern ports as you could find many a treasure...

Supposedly there were going to be inspections taking place during the disembarkation process in Canada, although one rarely hears of this having taken place. I'd imagine some of the Officer Corps may have gotten items at a bargain on the trip home.

"Unless .... an officer, I find it hard to believe that he personally brought back this rifle"
"Americans had no problem hauling back half of Europe. Canadians on the other hand ....."
"Rumour has it that that one should dredge ......could find many a treasure..." (Pirates of the Caribbean???)
"Supposedly there were going to be inspections .............."
"although one rarely hears .........." (what does one hear??)
This speech was often given on the troop transport back to Canada"
"I'd imagine ..............." (pretty much sums it all up!)

hey coyote .... we can only pity those whose only source of fact(or fiction) and method to communicate (with anyone) is the internet .....

 

[StrelokM38]

The Germans collectors come at the Gun Shows in Canada to buy guns?????

Here in Brandon, we had an individual that set up a table with some incredible pieces a number of years back. Far too expensive and rare to buy so I had the impression he was more interested in showing them off rather than selling. However, he certainly kept his eye on the tables throughout the hall for some special stuff. He had stuff ranging from a Borschardt C93 with matching stock to some rather extravagent First and Second world war Officers pistols. List went on.

Some crazy stuff always seem to show up even at the smaller shows that pop up in small towns in the area here. Think those big buyers have that well in mind.

 

[MD]

I worked with a WWII vet in the 1970s and he said when they were at anchor in Halifax preparing to debark after the war they got the "No contraband or you'll get shipped right back" speech and all night you could hear "Plunk, plunk, splash, splash" as Lugers, P38s, other pistols and submachine guns got dropped over the side.

That said, in the small town I grew up in on the BC coast there were rumours of at least two Lugers in people's possession. My dad's friend had a handful of 9mm cartridges by the binnacle on his boat. He supposedly had one of the rumoured Lugers though I never saw it.

A friend's stepfather had a Webley 455 but I don't know if that was a Pacific Coast Militia Rangers (PCMR) issue revolver or had some other provenance.

 

[Recce21]

Right - aside from the fact your comments were not on topic of the thread - what you (7ECA) said



"Unless .... an officer, I find it hard to believe that he personally brought back this rifle"
"Americans had no problem hauling back half of Europe. Canadians on the other hand ....."
"Rumour has it that that one should dredge ......could find many a treasure..." (Pirates of the Caribbean???)
"Supposedly there were going to be inspections .............."
"although one rarely hears .........." (what does one hear??)
This speech was often given on the troop transport back to Canada"
"I'd imagine ..............." (pretty much sums it all up!)

hey coyote .... we can only pity those whose only source of fact(or fiction) and method to communicate (with anyone) is the internet .....

Its posts like this that make me feel like CGN members are legally incapable of critical thinking and reasonable debate.

Get a grip

 

[Eaglelord17]

Officially Troops in WWII were not allowed to bring back souvenirs. The reality is they brought back handguns... a ton of them.

There is a reason there is a ton of all matching pistols in Canada, its because it was easy to conceal a handgun or two and bring it back with you. Rifles not so much...

 

[Rugdoc]

Officially Troops in WWII were not allowed to bring back souvenirs. The reality is they brought back handguns... a ton of them.

There is a reason there is a ton of all matching pistols in Canada, its because it was easy to conceal a handgun or two and bring it back with you. Rifles not so much...

Yeah. I cringe when I see a post that starts with "I've got the Lee Enfield rifle my grandfather carried in WWII"....

 

[student of history]

FWiW, I think the likelihood is high that the OP’s rifle is in fact a Canadian vet bring back. As many have already mentioned, Canadian soldiers were not officially permitted to bring rifles home at the war’s end, but I have observed a curious trend over the years...

For the last decade, I have been actively collecting K98 rifles and have admittedly imported a good number of them from the United States due to the fact that certain codes simply don’t turn up in Canada... but in collecting these rifles, I’ve noticed that in the very limited circumstances when you do encounter a rifle with Canadian bring back provenance, it’s almost always an early code. We typically do not encounter late war Kriegsmodell variants in Canada (unless they were formally imported from the United States) but I have personally come across four matching rifles in Canada and they are as follows:

1938 - 243 (Luft)
1938 - 147 (Heer)
1939 - 42 (Heer)
1939 - 237 (Kriegsmarine)

While I can’t base this hunch on anything other than a feeling, I believe that there was perhaps a way for soldiers to get rifles home during the war as opposed to bringing them home at the end of the war which may explain the early codes? Perhaps the MPs were more lenient earlier on? I’m not really sure, it’s just a thought...