Germans blow up a M4 comparing to 416.
- Thread starter scotty
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At that range, (a couple of feet), their mics were probably clipping beyond anything that would make a decent soundbite so they decided to dub in the gunshots from a properly recorded soundbite. They probably even went as far as recording the automatic fire at a different time with the mic at a proper distance so it's likely that the sound is from the same firearm.
It's hard doing a live scene with such drastically different sound levels. (Speaking at normal level then immediately into repeated fire.) Too bad buddy was bursting instead of automatic fire.
That's not racist. Germans are not a race, they are a nationality. I am mostly German heritage, I should know. You could call it a nationalist remark if you wanted to be correct about it.
This was a sarcastic comment on the bias I see on the German soldier's part. It looks to me like they had to look long and hard to find fault with the M4.
And I am not loose, and therefore cannot become looser.
I really doubt HK needs to make things up anyways to make M4 look bad. There is a video of the G36 doing the same thing. The guy practically did not even slow down to drain and the rifle just kept on going. It is no doubt the 416 is more reliable - the question is always that there is not enough benefit to justify the cost.
- For the german test : For regular German with Fieram licence that's impossible to have an HK416 !
- For the test, that's normal M4 fail, cause the if the water stay in gas tube that not nice with the sytem.
In plus, nothing new with HK416, in 60' the Taiwanese (Republic Of China - Nationalist China) version of the M16-AR15 have gas piston system :
- http://world.guns.ru/assault/as82-e.htm .
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T91_assault_rifle
The T91 Taiwanese rifle is in M4 configuration,
(credit: Courtesy SP Lee @ wikimedia.org)
HK are very good in marketing with good quality manufacturing
- For the test, that's normal M4 fail, cause the if the water stay in gas tube that not nice with the sytem.
In plus, nothing new with HK416, in 60' the Taiwanese (Republic Of China - Nationalist China) version of the M16-AR15 have gas piston system :
- http://world.guns.ru/assault/as82-e.htm .
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T91_assault_rifle
The T91 Taiwanese rifle is in M4 configuration,
(credit: Courtesy SP Lee @ wikimedia.org)
HK are very good in marketing with good quality manufacturing
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And in combat, you'd be dead ....
Because combat is funny in the sense that you don't get to choose under which circumstances you get to engage, sometimes it's coming off a beach, sometimes you end up lying prone un a deep mud puddle, just the nature of the beast.
My guess is plenty, I have several written accounts from SEAL's in Vietnam who had their 16's blow up, which is why they came up with those nifty little "ear plug" style foam thingis that you put at the end of your barrel to keep the crap out, they work, sorta.
Time is a luxury you rarely have while in combat.
Exactly.
Nice in theory, just doesn't work that way in combat.
The gas tube on a DI is very thin, even a tiny amount of steam (water) in there is enough to dramatically raise the pressures, in this case the M4 performed exactly as it was designed, it blew up when you need it
...Yep, they did, which is why SEALs (and various other combat troops) ditched their 16's at the first opportunity and carried captured AK's.
Yep, they do, how the hell do you thing you do a beach recon ? Or a stealth insertion in coastal environment ? You guessed it, they swim in ...
It is pretty ingenious the way that HK reverse engineered the 1963 American designed AR180's gas system for their rifle, they are so smart.
When Stoner realized how much of a monumental blunder he had made he fixed it, but to this day hardly anyone wants to listen.
Yep.
How much is a soldier's life worth ?
A soldier's life is worth the objective of the mission and the replacement costs for future mission, based on his knowledge, experience and training, as well as the constraint of manpower.
Everything has a price tag on it - winning the war is about allocating, prioritizing and delivering the resources in the right amount at the right time to impart the highest influence on the ultimate outcome - victory over the enemies in a war.
Everything has a price tag on it - winning the war is about allocating, prioritizing and delivering the resources in the right amount at the right time to impart the highest influence on the ultimate outcome - victory over the enemies in a war.
That is how Col. Braddock defeated the entire Viet Cong Army
Watch and learn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHL7EewhO0o
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I am sorry, I just don't buy it. By that same logic we should all carry around 500 + lbs of kit just in case? Like full winter kit and arctic tents sleds in Kandahar in the middle of July, on the off chance it might blizzard in the middle of the day? Maybe we should have the troops running around in full wet suits with respirators and fins to go with their new fully amphibious HK 416's, cause "you never know in combat". They should buy a bunch of glock's with marine spring cups too. And underwater M203 launchers. Underwater M249's and FN MAG's. I mean, you never know in combat right? What if your gun commander sights your firebase 300m off the coast for the assault? What if you have to rescue a red headed mermaid from a sea witch?
SEALs have a fairly specific mandate, and that would include them having a use for the 416. Maybe Marines that are involved in amphibious assaults too. As for the entire US ARMY/ NAVY/ Airforce/ Rangers/ Green Beret/ Delta/ and whatever else? Get real. They can take the two seconds to let their gas tube drain if they trip and fall in a puddle on their section attack.
scouser_tommy81
New member
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unfortunately the acquisition of arms for le or military is rarely about what the best tool for the job is. it is strongly influenced by price and, especially for military, politics. diemaco is a canadian company that employs canadian workers and that is a gigantic benefit to the politicians that are responsible for supplying our military with it's hardware; the same is true for colt in america. add to that the price, and you see why, as good as the 416 may be, it will never be in widespread use in north america. at best, special forces may get their hands on a few and maybe some richer police departments
scouser_tommy81
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- vancouver, bc
i still want a 416, though
For those who don't know about the history of the HK 416;
The lead designer at HK commented that the Colt M4 / M16 is an incredible weapon, well designed and ingenious.
All HK did was make it better. They took all of the flaws in the system (which are few) and corrected them. The Germans are a little confused though, the G36 was designed from the ground up as a new weapon. The 416 is retro fitted with the G36 gas system and some other features. It took the Germans a while to understand why anyone would want a 416 when they already have the G36 fielded and in wide spread use.
Now that they understand that it is a training issue with units / forces that already field the M4 / M16 they get it. Having said that, the HK 416 (with it's flawed AR 15 / M16 magazine system) might be a better weapon overall and more rugged than the G36. This is debatable as the G36 / XM8 beat out all others in the latest dust testing (even though the entire top of the bolt carrier is exposed to the elements !). One of the original design goals with the 416 was to try and bring it up to the level of reliability experienced with the G36.
The key to making the G36 better and usable, lose the issued sight (s), put aluminum rails on, then add the sight of your choice...Aimpoint...Eotech...ACOG...ect.
What is interesting is that the defenders of the DI system usually have never been issued or carried any other weapon. The DI gun is all they really know other than playing around with some other guns a bit here and there. This group includes nearly all of our Military members and most of our Police Tactical Team members (except most of them know the HK MP5 as well).
The M4 is a good weapon, the HK416 is much better, no not a little bit but much better.
Rich
The lead designer at HK commented that the Colt M4 / M16 is an incredible weapon, well designed and ingenious.
All HK did was make it better. They took all of the flaws in the system (which are few) and corrected them. The Germans are a little confused though, the G36 was designed from the ground up as a new weapon. The 416 is retro fitted with the G36 gas system and some other features. It took the Germans a while to understand why anyone would want a 416 when they already have the G36 fielded and in wide spread use.
Now that they understand that it is a training issue with units / forces that already field the M4 / M16 they get it. Having said that, the HK 416 (with it's flawed AR 15 / M16 magazine system) might be a better weapon overall and more rugged than the G36. This is debatable as the G36 / XM8 beat out all others in the latest dust testing (even though the entire top of the bolt carrier is exposed to the elements !). One of the original design goals with the 416 was to try and bring it up to the level of reliability experienced with the G36.
The key to making the G36 better and usable, lose the issued sight (s), put aluminum rails on, then add the sight of your choice...Aimpoint...Eotech...ACOG...ect.
What is interesting is that the defenders of the DI system usually have never been issued or carried any other weapon. The DI gun is all they really know other than playing around with some other guns a bit here and there. This group includes nearly all of our Military members and most of our Police Tactical Team members (except most of them know the HK MP5 as well).
The M4 is a good weapon, the HK416 is much better, no not a little bit but much better.
Rich
dangertree
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100% on.
dangertree
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- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
Quote:
Originally Posted by smak_daddy
I would have waited another few more seconds to let the water drain on both models.
If you come underfire while you're underwater, guess what, you're already dead.
Originally Posted by smak_daddy
I would have waited another few more seconds to let the water drain on both models.
If you come underfire while you're underwater, guess what, you're already dead.
Or you are getting drowned because you are dropped so far off into the water! 
You just want to drop the rifle to the bottom of the lake!
You just want to drop the rifle to the bottom of the lake!Quote:
Originally Posted by smak_daddy
I would have waited another few more seconds to let the water drain on both models.
If you come underfire while you're underwater, guess what, you're already dead.
