I hunted every day for 3 straight months in my usual stand did not see one deer,saw some cars I think they are forming predator packs and decimating the deer herd.I saw one 200 lb coyote last winter he ate all the fawns and half the deer herd,they shot him in town he was eating children.f**k we must sound like a bunch of handicapped people to the outside world.
Getting Desperate.....
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I'm willing to bet you don't have tens of thousands of wolves inhabiting every square inch of habitat,from suburban parks to the most remote tracts of woodlands like eastern coyotes do.Again,apples to oranges.
Nobody...or at least I,never said that coyotes are solely responsible,in fact,to the contrary,I said modern forestry practices and habitat/DWA loss is the main factor in NB.That said,I don't givafuk what western coyotes eat or don't eat,or how many wolves or grizzlies live in your backyard,the point is bigger,meaner,wolf-like behaving Eastern Coyotes eat a substantial amount of our deer.
wow...
did someone mention something about sounding like a bunch of handicapped folks to the outside world?
holy moly!
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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You're forgetting one important factor in your comparisons; the fact that you have a much larger variety of prey animals in the west.
Predators can have a significant impact on game populations, it's asinine to try and dispute that fact, especially in areas where the prey animals are dealing with a population explosion of predators which are relatively new to an area.
An example would be the caribou population in Newfoundland being impacted by coyotes and bears. Also the wolves released in Yellowstone. The figures of the drop in the Elk population in Idaho,Montana and Wyoming are astounding.
There is really no balance in predator/prey relationships. The predator population will only decrease after the prey animal numbers have declined.
The only way to try and maintain somewhat of a balance is through controlled methods of hunting or trapping.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The elk in the northwestern-central US were FAR above their historical, Pre-US expansion levels, that's why the noted 'decline'. We've become accustomed to ridiculous cervid numbers, and aren't fans of competition. A lot of people are seeing what a balanced ecosystem looks like for the first time, Yellowstone was in a steadily worsening ecological state prior to the reintroduction of wolves. Fish numbers have since skyrocketed in the rivers and streams, water quality has increased, and new Aspen groves have started for the first time in decades. Yes, predator and prey populations do naturally balance. The results are just not what some have become accustomed to, and even so, the results are pretty darn good. Evidence the west.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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http://www.facebook.com/notes/boone...he-animal-rights-agenda-part-one/495060950408
Excerpt from above article:
Now translate this into the effect this expanded wolf population has had on just one state, Idaho, which has the single-largest wolf population at 835.
Idaho’s management unit No. 10 on the North Fork of the Clearwater, part of the famed Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness, has been home to one of America’s classic elk herds.
In January, 1989, the elk herd totaled 11,507 animals, with 2,298 calves, 604 yearling males and a cow-calf ratio of 100 to 30. Twenty-one years later in February, 2010, the elk population has declined to 1,473 animals (87 percent decline), 144 calves (94 percent decline), 14 yearling males (98 percent decline), and a cow-calf ratio of 100 to 17 (43 percent decline). Look at the effect this has had on hunters, with the 2010 hunting season starting September 15, October 5 and 10, depending on the management unit.
As of August 20, 2010, out of a quota of 12,715 available elk tags for Idaho residents, 7,421 remain unsold (58 percent). Available non-resident elk tags were 10,415, and 7,085 remain unsold (68 percent). The total non-resident whitetail deer tags available are 13,515, and 12,292 remain unsold (91 percent). Total license revenues lost by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game equal $10 million, which is 12.8 percent of the department’s annual budget of $78 million. Not only has the continued wolf litigation protected and expanded the wolf population, it’s dramatically taken down the elk and deer populations, reduced the incentive and number of sportsmen that want to hunt, and financially crippled the ability of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to effectively function, thus demoralizing their ability to manage their fish and game.
Good thing the Aspen groves are returning as you mention, they are after all a valuable and rare tree in North America.
Perhaps Alberta and BC should ban the hunting/trapping of wolves, seeing what a benefit they are to the environment.
Excerpt from above article:
Now translate this into the effect this expanded wolf population has had on just one state, Idaho, which has the single-largest wolf population at 835.
Idaho’s management unit No. 10 on the North Fork of the Clearwater, part of the famed Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness, has been home to one of America’s classic elk herds.
In January, 1989, the elk herd totaled 11,507 animals, with 2,298 calves, 604 yearling males and a cow-calf ratio of 100 to 30. Twenty-one years later in February, 2010, the elk population has declined to 1,473 animals (87 percent decline), 144 calves (94 percent decline), 14 yearling males (98 percent decline), and a cow-calf ratio of 100 to 17 (43 percent decline). Look at the effect this has had on hunters, with the 2010 hunting season starting September 15, October 5 and 10, depending on the management unit.
As of August 20, 2010, out of a quota of 12,715 available elk tags for Idaho residents, 7,421 remain unsold (58 percent). Available non-resident elk tags were 10,415, and 7,085 remain unsold (68 percent). The total non-resident whitetail deer tags available are 13,515, and 12,292 remain unsold (91 percent). Total license revenues lost by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game equal $10 million, which is 12.8 percent of the department’s annual budget of $78 million. Not only has the continued wolf litigation protected and expanded the wolf population, it’s dramatically taken down the elk and deer populations, reduced the incentive and number of sportsmen that want to hunt, and financially crippled the ability of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to effectively function, thus demoralizing their ability to manage their fish and game.
Good thing the Aspen groves are returning as you mention, they are after all a valuable and rare tree in North America.
Perhaps Alberta and BC should ban the hunting/trapping of wolves, seeing what a benefit they are to the environment.
I'd still be interested to know what there is for forestry, oil & gas, road building, etc. taking place in this part of Idaho.
Or perhaps it's a case of over-mature, decadent (see degrading) habitat along with wolves and other factors.
Don't get me wrong, I am pro predator hunting but I have a hard time buying predators wiping out ungulates all on their own.
Or perhaps it's a case of over-mature, decadent (see degrading) habitat along with wolves and other factors.
Don't get me wrong, I am pro predator hunting but I have a hard time buying predators wiping out ungulates all on their own.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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I was in that area of Idaho about 2 years ago, January. They have a pile of wolves, there were tracks everywhere.
We have no shortage of them in Manitoba and I'm out every day during the winter in remote areas, so it's easy to see tracks in the snow. I saw far more tracks in Idaho.
Where I was, the decline in the elk population was 100% caused by wolves, no doubt. There is no industry/mining. The houndsmen used to let the dogs go after cats day and night, even leave them out there overnight. This isn't the case anymore, the dogs' howls are like a dinner bell to the wolves.
I just can't buy that it is 100% wolves. On the other hand you can't be convinced that possibly the habitat is too blame, so there's not much point arguing it further.
Anyways, I hope everybody goes out and gets a wolf rug this winter, they make great trophies!
Anyways, I hope everybody goes out and gets a wolf rug this winter, they make great trophies!
Although i agree coyotes are a problem in southern ontario weve also had a bad winter kill where it was repoted almost a 40 percent loss also last year a lot of corn was left in the fields due to mould and we lost many deer that ate the mouldy corn. I come across deer sculls regularly on properties i hunt.2 years ago i counted over 30 different deer on one parcel that was a deer yard last year i saw only a doe fawn and buck this year only a doe and buck which i let go on that piece. Norther up i went i saw a lot more deer.i think the southern and eastern ontario population was hit harder .'in picton the numbers are even worse and i refused to go deer hunting there. I instead bought a 223 to clean up some coyotes this year.head farther north away frommthe corn belt and youll run into deer
a lot of times last winter we would get a rain after a heavy snow fall then freeze again. The coyotes could walk right on top but the deer would punch right threw. Deer couldn't dig in the fields for feed either. Both dead deer I found, their hooves had 1.5" gashes on the top from the ice. They put the run on the deer and they have no escape from 6-8 hungry coyotes.
