Getting in the AR15 bangwagon

[Rivalen]

Hi Folks,

I've been lurking this part of the forum for a while now. I need to make the difficult decision of choosing the right AR15 for me. I've never held one, never shot one. At first I was looking at Colt Competition CRP-18, Stag 3G, Armalite M15, JP CTR-02, Rainier ultramatch, ATRS AT15 or even an ATRS Modern Varminter (Soon maybe?) etc because I'm more of "Buy once, cry once" type of guy but I think it would be wiser to get my hand on the product first and learn the basics; It'll help me to choose and to know what I need.

What I'm looking for is something cheap (Lets say under 1000$ all in) that will shoot straight, with the pins at the right place if I ever want to work on it or change parts and that retains a good value when it's time to resell it. It would also be a good time to get decent optics that I will be able to reuse on a better rifle.

For starter, I don't do 3 guns, or any rifle competition but it's something I'd like to get into someday; For now, I'll be just shooting at static targets. I've seen a few brand/models in my price bracket, Norinco (Ammo deals), Black Forge, Dominion Arms, CORE15, S&W15, NEA... Any brand I should avoid or really look into? What would be best?

Or just talk me into buying once and crying once Thanks for the tips

 

[FoxAlpha]

I'd avoid nea, I've read too many times of issues of them not being to spec. At least a norinco you know is out of spec.
My first hand experience with core15 has been great and I think is a good starter place. Everything else will most likely fit should you want to add.
The whole "buy once cry once" doesn't exactly apply to the basic end user in the AR-15 world. Your more than likely not going to notice a difference in shooting a core15 versus a Knights armament sr-15 with a 3000+ price tag.

 

[Weekend Gunslingers]

CORE 15 is a really well made product with the best warranty I have ever seen:

Since the video I have added the following Magpul furniture:

MOE handguard
MOE pistol grip
MOE VFG
MOE stock

This is what it currently looks like for a total spend (including the magpul stuff) of around $1200-1300

 

[Master-G]

I really like my S&W Mid MOE M&P15. It's got a lot of neat features that go together to make a really good AR at not too high a price. It has a 16" barrel with a mid-length gas system and a 1:8" twist rate with 5R rifling. I've previously owned five ARs with barrel lengths ranging from 10.3" to 20" and, while I do like the shorties a lot, I find a 16" barrel a good compromise of handiness while still having sufficient length to obtain good muzzle velocity. Best of all (and here's maybe my favourite part) it's got a lightweight profile. I hate short, handy rifles with heavy barrels—the total weight of the rifle is about 6 1/2 pounds. The flash hider is both a compensator and flash hider—it's a bit long-ish for me, but I find it, along with the Magpul MOE fore-end, lend kind of an FN-FAL look to the rifle. The lower receiver is forged, and has a flared magwell and integral trigger guard. The front is textured for, I guess, shooters that like a magwell hold. I've replaced the MOE stock on mine with a Hogue one that I had kicking around.

 

[Marty Mcfly]

For starter, I don't do 3 guns, or any rifle competition but it's something I'd like to get into someday; For now, I'll be just shooting at static targets. I've seen a few brand/models in my price bracket, Norinco (Ammo deals), Black Forge, Dominion Arms, CORE15, S&W15, NEA... Any brand I should avoid or really look into? What would be best?

Or just talk me into buying once and crying once Thanks for the tips

I know that Stag 3G you mentioned was made specifically for 3gun and she's a beauty! I'm looking at getting one for my next AR purchase or possibly just building one the exact same way. This way I can take my time and it gives me an ongoing project while I learn the sport

 

[Runningfool]

Not as many choices for a brand new AR "under $1000 all" in lately with the dollar being what it is. If memory serves, you guys and gals in Qu have to pay 15% tax so with shipping you will be looking at ARs listed at about $850CDN if you want it to your door for less than a K. You may be better looking at a used gun on the EE.

 

[jamesD83]

Yes the EE is a great place for some amazing deals on quality name ARs.
I've also seen some new for under a grand from site sponsors - S&W, Stag, DPMS, or Windham Weaponry.
I can speak for Norinco - I have a 10.5 and has always functioned 100%, so the value is there.

collect them all

 

[CoonT]

Ya, especially lately. The EE now, is like waking up in the morning and seeing all your neighbors houses' have for sale signs up. Haven't seen this many deals in a while now. So many sellers, what gives?

Yes the EE is a great place for some amazing deals on quality name ARs.
I've also seen some new for under a grand from site sponsors - S&W, Stag, DPMS, or Windham Weaponry.
I can speak for Norinco - I have a 10.5 and has always functioned 100%, so the value is there.

collect them all

 

[One Lung Wonder]

I would start with a plain Jane AR with the standard 20" barrel and standard service rifle furniture. The military chose this configuration because it is one that most people can achieve the basics with. Don't cheap out either; one of the scholarly gun geeks mentioned S&W. Another good one is Bushmaster or Stag. There are others but they all seem to be around the $1500.00 mark. EVERYONE (and this means YOU) deserves a good AR. Start with a reputable manufacturer to start...they have warranties and after sales support.

Leave the custom builds to the cool kids to start. Most of them know their way around they AR. it doesn't make sense to go there when you don't have any trigger time in and what works well for them may be less than perfect for you. Spend your money on ammo and targets to start.

The problem with the AR is also it's strength: it is literally a 'do it all' gun! You can pop long range targets, gophers, Talibangers, and even deer at moderate range with the right Upper and ammo! finding your place on the firing line is the only hurdle you face with the AR, and wherever you end up - that gun will be there for you. No other rifle today can boast the versatility of the AR15.

Good luck!

 

[Rivalen]

I would start with a plain Jane AR with the standard 20" barrel and standard service rifle furniture. The military chose this configuration because it is one that most people can achieve the basics with. Don't cheap out either; one of the scholarly gun geeks mentioned S&W. Another good one is Bushmaster or Stag. There are others but they all seem to be around the $1500.00 mark. EVERYONE (and this means YOU) deserves a good AR. Start with a reputable manufacturer to start...they have warranties and after sales support.

My problem is, I like nice toys. I was going to get a JP CTR02 but the price tag with the current market value of our Canadian dollar is out of this world; I don't mind spending but buying USD at 1.33 rate is madness. So either I bite the bullet and buy it anyway or I buy something cheap and learn the Platform (which might not be a bad idea; it could clarify my needs) while I patiently wait for the dollar to come up (I can dream on but who knows).

If I'm beeing told that everything under 1k is unworthy of my attention and I deserve better, no problem, I tried. I just wondered if there was something decent in the low end Spectrum, inexpensive firearms are generally much easier to move. If I'm told I should aim more at the 1500$ mark, I don't have a problem going for a Stag 3g/Colt CRP18/Armalite M15 that are already "Race ready" with all the bells and whistles for just a few hundred more at ~1700-1900.

I'll keep looking, keep this post rolling I like what I see! Thanks a lot!

I saw the following
SIG Enhanced M400 ~1100$
Ruger AR556 ~900$
I'll be looking into them..

 

[RC Fan]

I saw the following
SIG Enhanced M400 ~1100$
Ruger AR556 ~900$
I'll be looking into them..

I assume the AR-556 will be similar as far as quality to the SR-556--I'd pick the Sig.

 

[pjnorth]

I saw the following
SIG Enhanced M400 ~1100$
Ruger AR556 ~900$
I'll be looking into them..

I am very happy with my SIG M400 Enhanced. It came with all the magpul furniture, picked it up used from a sight sponsor for $850.
I like a basic 16" carbine, and don't plan on adding anything. Haven't handled the Ruger AR, so I can't speak for it.

 

[mikethebike]

I built my own ar fir 3 gun,mthe models offered all had something that was bugging me so I went my own way with pieces that I really wanted.
Yes it costs more than a ready built stag 3g, but im not stuck paying twice because i dont like the stock, or the compensator or the trigger, etc.
my built is from muzzle to stock:
pws fsc 556
noveske spr 18 inch ss
bcm kmr 15 inch
vltor upper
spikes bcg
pof charging handle
cc lower
dd lpk
wilson combat 4 lbs 1 stage trigger
bcm tube
jp enclosed spring system
bcm stock
magpul pro offset buis
browe 4x

 

[Maple Leaf Pilgrim]

All I can say is maybe avoid NEA until they can get their ducks in a row. The folks who've already posted have provided you with good advice and there are plenty of sponsors who can help.

-S.

 

[richmyster]

Sounds like you're willing to pay a bit more than you first stated... I'd stay away from the lower end of the spectrum and either have your own built/build it yourself how you like, or start off with a higher tier manufacturer like Daniel Defence which can be had for very cheaply on the EE. I agree with you, buy once, cry once. A norinco AR is the AR you don't mind giving to a noob to try out, get something you don't want to lend and you'll be much happier.

 

[richmyster]

All I can say is maybe avoid NEA until they can get their ducks in a row. The folks who've already posted have provided you with good advice and there are plenty of sponsors who can help.

-S.

Just avoid NEA completely. They've been around long enough now that their ducks should be in a row by now...

 

[Runningfool]

Just avoid NEA completely. They've been around long enough now that their ducks should be in a row by now...

Their ducks have been in a row for a while now....whenever someone posts an issue, no one ever asks if the rifle or component is new production, 1 year old, 3 years old, etc. the usual suspects just assume it is new production stuff and the mud slinging begins. But let's not turn this into another NEA bashfest.

 

[beltfed]

The only thing I'd recommend for a new shooter or a new to the platform existing shooter is either a 20" rifle or a 16" carbine with a mid length gas system.
If you live by the 'buy once, cry once' mantra, then there really is only one choice: Colt Canada SA20

I'd never recommend an M4 or 4gery because quite frankly, despite owning a number of copies, they are a compromise to a 20" rifle.

At least in the civilian world, Carbines are built for show and rifles are built for go.
Get a rifle. If you want to play around with carbines and shorty CQB stuff, that is fine too, but that rifle will probably alway have a place in the cabinet.

 

[greentips]

20" rifle is outdated. 20" rifles are unnecessarily long for maneuvering and offer no ballistic advantage within the point and shoot range of 300m. Even out to 500m, the advantage of 20" tube with the higher velocity is perceptional rather than practical. There is no reason to carry any barrel over 16" , unless it is a free floated match barrel with an optic and ammo combo that can take advantage out to the 600 to 700m envelope. Even the USMC, the institute that has been stubbornly clinging on the traditional rifle idea is going to switch out the M16A4 rifles for M4 carbines in their line infantry units. And the death of 20" rifles had started long time ago when they introduced the 16.5" HK M27 IAR. As a matter of fact, they are teaching the Designated marksman rifle course using the 16" HK IAR now, not with the 20" rifle.

A 14.5" carbine is lighter and much more maneuverable, with no loss of practical precision unless you are pushing the engagement range beyond 500m. For a general purpose firearm, a carbine is the way to go. 20" rifle is more of a nostalgia these days, but not a practical firearm in a conventional format other than shooting at the KD range pointing in one direction.

 

[beltfed]

20" rifle is outdated. 20" rifles are unnecessarily long for maneuvering and offer no ballistic advantage within the point and shoot range of 300m. Even out to 500m, the advantage of 20" tube with the higher velocity is perceptional rather than practical. There is no reason to carry any barrel over 16" , unless it is a free floated match barrel with an optic and ammo combo that can take advantage out to the 600 to 700m envelope. Even the USMC, the institute that has been stubbornly clinging on the traditional rifle idea is going to switch out the M16A4 rifles for M4 carbines in their line infantry units. And the death of 20" rifles had started long time ago when they introduced the 16.5" HK M27 IAR. As a matter of fact, they are teaching the Designated marksman rifle course using the 16" HK IAR now, not with the 20" rifle.

A 14.5" carbine is lighter and much more maneuverable, with no loss of practical precision unless you are pushing the engagement range beyond 500m. For a general purpose firearm, a carbine is the way to go. 20" rifle is more of a nostalgia these days, but not a practical firearm in a conventional format other than shooting at the KD range pointing in one direction.

That is the whole point. Every civilian shooter in Canada is using these on approved ranges and for the most part in KD shooting. Sure one would be better served by a carbine if one was to partake in stuff like 3-gun, but the advantage of the shorter rifle is marginal at best.
The rifle length gas system a 20" rifle and the corresponding extended carbines are far nicer to shoot, with a gas impulse that is enjoyable in contrast to a carbine with a 14.5 or 10ish" barrel.
Since going out of fashion with the tac crowd 20" rifles can be had for very reasonable prices (there are several on the EE now).
Forgoing discussion about ballistics, because for us it is mostly white noise. While I agree wind drift and velocities are mostly a wash, there is still a slight advantage to a 20" rifle at distance.

That's my take.