Hey guys, been a member on the forum for a couple months now and have had my restricted and unrestricted for just under 2 years but have only recently been getting into the longer range side of shooting in the last couple months. After moving back to NB I was pleased that there was such a great club close by with a nice indoor and nice outdoor range with their longest being 400yards. I've been using my .223 savage with accu trigger and a couple small extras and a middle of the road leupold scope and rail. And have been trying different ammo and load types, but am just needing well alot of help. I want to buy a rifle capable of shooting an easy 1000m with the possibility of further as I become more adept at it. What type of gun? Caliber 308? 338? 416? 50bmg? Rail/ scope setup? Bipod? With or without monopod? Action type? Muzzel break? Spotting scope? If I'm gonna build it I want it to be versatile to allow me to use it as a beginner but also to be reach out and touch farther targets as I go. I'd appreciate any and all feedback, if you suggest something I also appreciate the pros and cons for your suggestion or must have's. Thanks!!
Getting into distance shooting...where to start...HELP!!
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- Start date
It all depends on what your budget is...
50bmg will cost around $6000 for single shots or $12000 for semi auto
If you are trying to save $$ and still be accruate at 1000 yards, I would look into 300win mag, 338, 30-378. they are all made to shoot flat and purpose was to hit targets at 1000 yards +.
you wanna go cheaper, then get a rifle that has good rating for its accruacy.. for eg tikka T3 tends to have good ratings on its accuracy. u can prob get one around $1000 for Stainless caliber. but then you need a scope that is capable to hit targets beyond 1000yards and you cannot cheap out on scopes. I have tested leupold, Huskemaw, Nightforce scopes and for my personal use i like Huskemaw.
If you dont have a budget set, i just built 30-378 weatherby mag with jewel trig, custom mcmillan tact stock, Krieger match grade barrel 10 twist and so on. It costed around $8000 including scope and atm it shoots around .2-.5" grouping at 100 yards. ofcourse it does not always shoot that good. Human errors will kick in here n there.
It should get in 6" grouping @1000yards without wind and flat land and capable to 1600yards kill.
Pros for this rifle is its my own build with personal taste and shoots great.
Cons Hard to get brass and very expensive. 25 brass are $99+tax
I have tried 300winmag also for long range. there are so many choices with 300 wm and it is way cheaper then 30-378 of course.
I also believe there are no Beginner + accruate long range rifle. from my personal experience no "super custom build" is accruate unless the person shooting it is. Shoot lots and try different reloads cause every gun has difference taste on powder measure, grain of bullets, overall Length of ammo for each gun.. there are so much to cover if you wanna be accruate @ 1000 yards. for most part it is not the quality of the rifle but its more with the person and what loads you are using..
You can even get away with accurized 300wm T3 ar 1000 yard range if you know what the gun likes.
I always say this to others but rather then buying 1000yard grade rifle first, ask ur self if you have time to reload, test powder measures, different kinds of bullets and so on.. if you want to get into it, then welcome to long range world! I can gladly help you with my knowledge with long range whenever you need but i cant really recommand you what to get.
Here is what general thinks tho. Krieger Match grade barrels have many "positive reviews"
both 300wm, 338Lapua are known to shoot very well on long range with right loads. 300wm many people uses around 150grains bullet and 338 lapua of course heavier rounds around 200grains.
For long range they tend to use hotter loads then your .223 so buzzle brake will help tons. My 30-378 with 110grains of powder will feel like .223 with huge boom..
Hope few things cleared your mind and let me know if u live around kootenays or bc we can go shootin together for you to try long range before you buying one!
50bmg will cost around $6000 for single shots or $12000 for semi auto
If you are trying to save $$ and still be accruate at 1000 yards, I would look into 300win mag, 338, 30-378. they are all made to shoot flat and purpose was to hit targets at 1000 yards +.
you wanna go cheaper, then get a rifle that has good rating for its accruacy.. for eg tikka T3 tends to have good ratings on its accuracy. u can prob get one around $1000 for Stainless caliber. but then you need a scope that is capable to hit targets beyond 1000yards and you cannot cheap out on scopes. I have tested leupold, Huskemaw, Nightforce scopes and for my personal use i like Huskemaw.
If you dont have a budget set, i just built 30-378 weatherby mag with jewel trig, custom mcmillan tact stock, Krieger match grade barrel 10 twist and so on. It costed around $8000 including scope and atm it shoots around .2-.5" grouping at 100 yards. ofcourse it does not always shoot that good. Human errors will kick in here n there.
It should get in 6" grouping @1000yards without wind and flat land and capable to 1600yards kill.
Pros for this rifle is its my own build with personal taste and shoots great.
Cons Hard to get brass and very expensive. 25 brass are $99+tax
I have tried 300winmag also for long range. there are so many choices with 300 wm and it is way cheaper then 30-378 of course.
I also believe there are no Beginner + accruate long range rifle. from my personal experience no "super custom build" is accruate unless the person shooting it is. Shoot lots and try different reloads cause every gun has difference taste on powder measure, grain of bullets, overall Length of ammo for each gun.. there are so much to cover if you wanna be accruate @ 1000 yards. for most part it is not the quality of the rifle but its more with the person and what loads you are using..
You can even get away with accurized 300wm T3 ar 1000 yard range if you know what the gun likes.
I always say this to others but rather then buying 1000yard grade rifle first, ask ur self if you have time to reload, test powder measures, different kinds of bullets and so on.. if you want to get into it, then welcome to long range world! I can gladly help you with my knowledge with long range whenever you need but i cant really recommand you what to get.
Here is what general thinks tho. Krieger Match grade barrels have many "positive reviews"
both 300wm, 338Lapua are known to shoot very well on long range with right loads. 300wm many people uses around 150grains bullet and 338 lapua of course heavier rounds around 200grains.
For long range they tend to use hotter loads then your .223 so buzzle brake will help tons. My 30-378 with 110grains of powder will feel like .223 with huge boom..
Hope few things cleared your mind and let me know if u live around kootenays or bc we can go shootin together for you to try long range before you buying one!
download or purchase the art of the precision rifle from magpul dynamics. Instructor Todd Harnott had Travis Haley with a M4 long barrelled rifle chambered in 308 shoot a distance of 1 mile...took several tries but he did it. Chris Costa using 338 Lapua did it in 2 shots
They talked about scopes (reticles) rifles, wind, bore sighting and some other stuff that i have yet to look at.
They talked about scopes (reticles) rifles, wind, bore sighting and some other stuff that i have yet to look at.
Hey guys thanks for all the help. I know and agree with you 100% that the equipment can only get you so far and the rest is determined by how good the shooter is. I'm a pretty good shot for what I've shot now so I'm sure that with some practice and taking the time to make sure everything's just right I can only get better and better. I've never heard of a Huskemaw scope? What do you find makes it superior to a high end Leupold or Nightforce? Pro's, con's of it in comparison and the tipping point. I definitly want to be able to shoot farther in the future and for that I know you'll probably need something big bore like a 50bmg but definitly getting everything honed down to a fine tuned machine is going to require something alittle cheaper to fire. Have you reloaded a 338, and if so how do you find reloading costs.
Wanted to say thanks as well for pointing me to the video on pretty well everything that you need to know about shooting distances.
Wanted to say thanks as well for pointing me to the video on pretty well everything that you need to know about shooting distances.
Before spending one dime on a rifle or equipment, contact your Provincial Rifle Association. Ask about an Introductory Day or if you could just go out to a practice or match and watch. Ask lots of questions.
Competitions for Target Rifle and F Class fire at distances from 300 yards to 1000 yards. TR shooters are shooting .308's and .223's out to 1000 yards. Some ranges have caliber restrictions so your .338, 416, .50 may not be welcome.
If you think you learned everything you need to know about long range shooting from a video, you're in for an education when you get to the range.
Competitions for Target Rifle and F Class fire at distances from 300 yards to 1000 yards. TR shooters are shooting .308's and .223's out to 1000 yards. Some ranges have caliber restrictions so your .338, 416, .50 may not be welcome.
If you think you learned everything you need to know about long range shooting from a video, you're in for an education when you get to the range.
Truer words have never been spoken.
You do NOT need some big $$$ boomer just to shoot 1000 yards. Like Maynard said, the best thing you can do is get in touch with your local PRA and get the facts from the guys that do it, not internet snipers...
Just my observation for the OP. There are always boomers for sale on the EE in this forum for a reason.
Not many have the money to send a constant stream of $5 bills down range at each trigger pull.
Not many really have the discipline to learn the mental skills of ballistics and wind doping nor the time to learn it.
It takes 10 weeks to train the world's best long range shooters and they are very skilled prior to beginning the 10 weeks.
I wish you well if you decide to jump in, and I know you will get quality info from the competition guys here.
Maynard had sage advice. Try PRA with some help and see if it fits you and I agree you dont't need a Big Mac/C15 to go to 1000 yds.
Cheers
Not many have the money to send a constant stream of $5 bills down range at each trigger pull.
Not many really have the discipline to learn the mental skills of ballistics and wind doping nor the time to learn it.
It takes 10 weeks to train the world's best long range shooters and they are very skilled prior to beginning the 10 weeks.
I wish you well if you decide to jump in, and I know you will get quality info from the competition guys here.
Maynard had sage advice. Try PRA with some help and see if it fits you and I agree you dont't need a Big Mac/C15 to go to 1000 yds.
Cheers
Absolutely agree with all that's been said and I definitely know you can't even learn a fraction of all there is to know from a simple video online. But rather give me an explanation of some of the terms involved in this type of shooting, before I get out onto the range. I've been shooting my enfield around the farm and more recently the .223 I have becoming more familiarized with the feel of the rifle. I'd certainly love the opportunity to train at this. And so am always open to advice and will certainly frequently this section more than I already do.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
To the OP - when in NB are you located?
The RNBRA's fullbore season starts in May. We shoot most weekends, at various distances from 300m to 900m. Most of our shooting is done at CFB Gagetown, though we have a few dates at Springfield (Mactaquac area) and St. Anthony (Moncton area).
PM me and I can contact you by email or phone if you wish.
The RNBRA's fullbore season starts in May. We shoot most weekends, at various distances from 300m to 900m. Most of our shooting is done at CFB Gagetown, though we have a few dates at Springfield (Mactaquac area) and St. Anthony (Moncton area).
PM me and I can contact you by email or phone if you wish.
Huskemaw scopes i am still testing them out with chrony.
Just ordered custom dial for zero stop.
I can really tell you pros and cons since i need to try more loads for bullets and when i recieve the custom dial then i'll let u know.
You dont need 50bmg for long range... any rounds that can maintain supersonic after 1000yards can do a very long range shooting.. even 300WM, 300WSM, 300rum, 338rum, all are capable of hitting 1000 yards no problem. Heavier grain the bullet is, more hitting force at longer range but 160-180 grains will do just find at 1000yards. dont need 700grains for plinkin targets after 1000yards. if want to snipe your wx girlfriend or go on a binge.... then 50bmg will work the best...... (kidding...)
The must haves for long range is 80% your time to finding a right load for your barrel, and many practice shots, glass bedding sometimes help improve accruacy, and scope.
This is my opinion so everyone else is different..
Some internet know it all's will tell you everything and anything.. tell you to buy $10,000 dollar rifle and its guranteed to hit. you can use $500 rifle with right loads and a damn good scope for long range.. im just a firm believer for better scopes on long range over 1000 yards.. leupold, nightforce, vortex, huskemaw all work greak but rather get you to try out first them buy them..
Just ordered custom dial for zero stop.
I can really tell you pros and cons since i need to try more loads for bullets and when i recieve the custom dial then i'll let u know.
You dont need 50bmg for long range... any rounds that can maintain supersonic after 1000yards can do a very long range shooting.. even 300WM, 300WSM, 300rum, 338rum, all are capable of hitting 1000 yards no problem. Heavier grain the bullet is, more hitting force at longer range but 160-180 grains will do just find at 1000yards. dont need 700grains for plinkin targets after 1000yards. if want to snipe your wx girlfriend or go on a binge.... then 50bmg will work the best...... (kidding...)
The must haves for long range is 80% your time to finding a right load for your barrel, and many practice shots, glass bedding sometimes help improve accruacy, and scope.
This is my opinion so everyone else is different..
Some internet know it all's will tell you everything and anything.. tell you to buy $10,000 dollar rifle and its guranteed to hit. you can use $500 rifle with right loads and a damn good scope for long range.. im just a firm believer for better scopes on long range over 1000 yards.. leupold, nightforce, vortex, huskemaw all work greak but rather get you to try out first them buy them..
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I shoot a 105gr 6mm bullet to 900m competitively......and even take home trophies now and again.
Have shot it out to 1200yds keeping it within 1MOA in heavy mirage.
You do not need huge cases shooting large bullets to make the trip.
Do some research on ballistics to the distances you will shoot and make a decision based on that criteria as to what cartridge would suit you best, hook up with your PRA (as stated) and see what people are shooting at distance.
No need to spend many 1000's of dollars on a rifle when a simple action tuning and an aftermarket (read: match) barrel will put you on par with any other match grade rifle out there.
well you dont get my point. those calibers i have said are included with 110 grains to 220's of bullet that a person can shoose. I have told the person what caliber can both work with lighter and heavier bullets.
you can shoot 105's all day if you want but i shoot 180's justbecause i like it that way. 300 WM can fit both 110's and 180s if the person wants to try long range or first time, why not give him informations of caliber that can shoot veriaty of bullets for him to try out?
and the rifle that i quoted was my personal build and told the person glassbedding and changing the barrel will even work fine under $1000 dollars.
you can shoot 105's all day if you want but i shoot 180's justbecause i like it that way. 300 WM can fit both 110's and 180s if the person wants to try long range or first time, why not give him informations of caliber that can shoot veriaty of bullets for him to try out?
and the rifle that i quoted was my personal build and told the person glassbedding and changing the barrel will even work fine under $1000 dollars.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
@Skin, which model is your .223 Savage? Do you happen to know the barrel length, and also its twist rate?
You can start shooting out to 600m with your .223 - the RNBRA runs matches and also training days, starting in May (mostly at CFB Gagetown but also a few at Springfield and St. Anthony). And if you handload for your .223 and if it is a fast twist barrel, you can shoot your .223 all the way out to 900m.
You might find that it is not easy to find a place to shoot 1000m+ in NB (or if you do, please let me know! ;-). But we do have quite an active shooting program all the way out to 900m.
I would suggest that you start doing some mid and long range shooting with your .223 as soon as possible; while you are shooting, take your time to see what other people are shooting, what they have tried etc, and you can make a much better informed decision for yourself as to what you might like to buy/build for a dedicated long range rifle.
Everyone wants to be a fricken 1,000m guy. Hardly anyone actually is. Forget about all that junk and just find a nice rifle that you can afford to shoot and PRACTICE. Go to PRA matches!When you have troubles keeping up at 300m then you will realize there is lots of work to do before you bother wasting your ammo at 1,000m.
Go out and buy yourself a new scope for your Savage .223. Vortex Vipers have a good track record and come with a good price. Maybe a Sightron fixed power scope to save some money.
You will have more fun shooting your 223 then you will bigger calibers. Also a 55gr 22cal bullet will help you to see how the wind pushes bullets around.
I don't see any reason why you can't get a 55gr bullet out to 1000 yards.
You will have more fun shooting your 223 then you will bigger calibers. Also a 55gr 22cal bullet will help you to see how the wind pushes bullets around.
I don't see any reason why you can't get a 55gr bullet out to 1000 yards.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Yep
So you want to go long? So do I. My first thought is your "Long Range Rifle" going to be your primary shooter or something to mess with now and then. My primary rifle is currently an M-305 or Rem 700 SPS Tac depending on my mood. Both can go a long way with the right load. As I see it, if it's going to be your primary rifle then .308 or .223. Lots of bullets/loaded ammo to choose from and more important lots on the shelves. It may be me but the .223 seem a bit more difficult to load for, the sweet spots seem a little tighter. It may be my imagination.
If you want a rifle to shoot along side your "primary" then what every excites you and fits your bank account. I picked the 300 Win Mag. It's not cheap by any standard. Loading up 50 rounds uses the bulk of a pound of powder, but brass is reasonable and so are .308 bullets. I have a 30" McGowen attached to a Savage 110 action. It has a Choate Varmint stock and a Timney trigger. That set me back about $1100-1200 dollars before tax. It's heavy (16 lbs) but that's good with the Mag, it's tolerable to shoot. A light Magnum is no fun at the range, unless it's braked, and then it's no fun for anyone else. The real bounus is an hour in the shop and I have a Savage 111 in 7mm Mag to hunt with.
Further to the above quote. My Win Mag has never shot beyond 100 yds. Oppertunities to go long are few here, many spots but all private land. Contacting the owner takes some time, and they may say no in the end. One day. The Win Mag has the juice to get it out there too. I ran a few 208 A-Max over my Chrony the other day and was suprised to see just a wisker over 3000 fps. Granted it's Retumbo and the long tube, I don't think it will do that with a 26" barrel, not without dangerous pressures I suspect. It's also a little on the warm side, a few were a little sticky coming out. I'm hope I can still get good groups with it slowed down a bit. Around 2950 should do the trick.
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I've just been getting into F-class , they have an open class and another for 308 and 223 . I've been budget building my rifle, bought a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 308 as my starting platform , harris by pod, lightened up the trigger , 20moa rail and a Sightron scope SIII . Thanks to CGN I've been able to do this with in my budget . The only other upgrade I'd like to make and recommend is a good stock ie. HS Persision etc etc. The sky's the limit when it comes to long range shooting, its about time, money and how fancy you want to get .
I'm not an expert at F-class but it seems like a good way to start to learn to shoot long range ! So far I'm having a blast ! Happy Shooting!!
I'm not an expert at F-class but it seems like a good way to start to learn to shoot long range ! So far I'm having a blast ! Happy Shooting!!
I somewhat disagree with this statement and always encourage people to shoot longer ranges.
Being from a TR background using iron sights, we don't see everything like mirage in the sight picture. So it doesn't matter if you are shooting 10m air rifle, 50m smallbore or 900m/1000 yards, the sight picture is still a black dot centered in the sights.
Learning to read the wind is how the matches are won. The only way to really learn to read the wind at long range is to get out and shoot in the wind. Shooting a .22 at 100 yards will help you to see trends in the wind patterns and is good practice, but nothing beat the experience of shooting in the wind at long range.
I would say if you can shoot scores in the mid 40's out of 50 on a DCRA target at 300 yards, you are ready to start shooting mid and long range.
Wow, there is a load of BS being spread in this thread. Don't get me wrong, there is some good info too. Apparently magnums are the best for shooting out to 1k? That's news to me... I guess I should sell my .260 then. What about all of the f-classers using 223's, 308's, etc?... Does ballistic coefficient mean anything at all? There was a comment also made about having a variety of bullets (110gr. 30 cal bullets)... I am sure those are ideal for long range.....
To the original poster, read carefully and review information from more than one source. Your Savage 223 can shoot out to 1K if it has the correct twist rate to launch the heavier vld bullets. If not, you can easily get it rebarreled for under $500, installed, to throw the heavy boys. Next, you will need optics up to the task. I am a fan of high magnification but more importantly is the internal adjustment limitations and how well the scope tracks.
There is plenty of good info on this forum but you need to search. There are a ton of shooters that shoot to 1000 and beyond without the use of magnum cartridges. I would listen to the regular f-class shooters. They know their stuff.
To the original poster, read carefully and review information from more than one source. Your Savage 223 can shoot out to 1K if it has the correct twist rate to launch the heavier vld bullets. If not, you can easily get it rebarreled for under $500, installed, to throw the heavy boys. Next, you will need optics up to the task. I am a fan of high magnification but more importantly is the internal adjustment limitations and how well the scope tracks.
There is plenty of good info on this forum but you need to search. There are a ton of shooters that shoot to 1000 and beyond without the use of magnum cartridges. I would listen to the regular f-class shooters. They know their stuff.
