Getting started - advice requested

I

IzzyTheGreat

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Location
SE Alberta
Hello CGNers,

I have decided to take the plunge and start reloading as something to fill my time between range trips or when the weather conditions don't permit my weekly range trip. I am reloading in a small condo and don't have a lot of space so the first thing I wanted to acquire was a stable work surface. Fabricating a bench myself and bolting cabinet's etc. onto the wall is out of the question since it is not my home and I cannot convince the owner to let me build a massive workshop in their basement :). I purchased a 4' workbench that I hope will fit the bill. I am now looking at presses and kits to get started on reloading and was hoping I could get some advice on what may be a good choice considering my circumstances. My max initial budget is ~$750 excluding components. I already have a manual but it is rather topic-specific, it is the Lyman AR reloading book but I know I will have to get another general manual, I've read that many recommended Lyman's manual for beginners so I think I will pick that up.

At this time I would plan to reload the following cartridges: 9x19mm, .223 Rem (5.56 NATO as well once I get a swaging tool), 6.55x55mm and 8x57mm Mauser. I would be doing relatively high volumes of the 9mm and .223 compared to the full power rifle cartridges. Should I start with a single stage press or just jump right to a progressive setup? My only concern with a progressive is space as I have a 4' wide bench that I would also want to mount a bench vise on for some home gunsmithing activities. I've heard a single stage press is best for "precision" reloading where you pay a lot of attention to each cartridge, but 90% of my work would probably be reloading 9mm and .223 for plinking at the range. I would hope to develop some good hunting loads for the 6.5 swede and 8mm Mauser as I think those should cover all of the game I would be looking to pursue once I get started on hunting, hopefully next year.

In summary: Should I just start with a single stage press to learn the ropes or will I be happier with a progressive? I would also appreciate any recommendations you're willing to provide. I've heard good things about RCBS and Dillon, how about Lyman or Hornady? Optimally I would hope to get the best value for my money by picking up a kit complete with scale, measures, trimmer etc. but if I may get better value from a higher-quality press on it's own than I will consider spending the money on that first and getting all the extras separately.

Thanks, I appreciate anybody who takes the time to reply with their advice.
 
I can't speak to your happiness, but a Lee turret press will allow you to learn with it as a single stage, and then use it as a progressive once you're comfortable. Then if you decide you want faster speed, you can move up to a full progressive, and you will still use the Lee for less volume. Ive been doing this with a Lee and a dillon for decades, works well. - dan
 
Start with a cheap single stage or turret. 6.5x55 and 8mm is where you will get the most value. 223 might work if you have lots of spare time. Forget about 9mm on the single stage.

Saving on 9mm is about $3-$5 per 100 rounds. 100 rounds takes about 1-1.5 hour on single stage. You can see the problem here.

Progressive is really good at making 9mm (or other pistol calibers). The problem is progressive takes a long time to switch between calibers and is best to setup a dedicated machine per caliber. I don't think you have the space for it.

For rifle rounds, progressive actually don't save you that much time as many steps happens off the press.
 
Same as Dan; I miss my Lee turret... You can start using one die at a time to learn. Not sure how adequate it would be for x50's calibers and there's way too many holes, even for my pistol needs.

Looking at Lee's kits, avoid O presses which don't have a priming arm at the bottom of the frame as the feature speeds loading a lot.

A Turret kit might be what you want, albeit I dislike the Lee scale. Pistol kits might come with a pistol powder measure of limited drop capacity..
 
I am very happy with my RCBS rock chucker kit. Single stage. I reload 30-30, 6.5 x 55 & just started 300 blackout.
8mm & 303 yet to do.
I bought a kit from Cabelas a number of years ago. It came with press,scale load data book and some other stuff, pretty much turn key once you had dies and loading components. Happy with it.
 
I have loaded for years many calibres with a little RCBS Jr. press.

For my relatively low volumes it has worked great. Even case forming.

But I sure would not recommend it if you want to make a lot of bullets fast.
 
Another vote for a turret press. A Redding T7 will last forever.
With a little prep and practice 300 pistol rounds an hour is possible.

Here is a stash of reloading manuals. Let me know if you want something not listed, I might have it.

ht tp://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/
 
Once you're into this you'll be in it for the rest of your shooting days. And that means that if you start with a single stage then for what you listed you will certainly want a progressive later on. On the other hand if you start with a progressive that can do rifle rounds as well then you will certainly want a single stage later on.... True bliss only comes from having both I'm afraid. A fact that I've proven to myself on many occasions.

If there is a sort of middle ground "one press for all" scenario I'd suggest that this would be the Dillon 550 option. Being a manually indexed progressive it means you can use it as a single stage, dual operation or full progressive depending on how you approach things.

The downside is that to use the Dillon in a single or dual step operation mode means you need to get a caliber conversion kit for every caliber you shoot. And if a number of those are "measure every charge" accuracy rifle rounds then you'll quickly pay the cost and more of a nice single stage press in caliber conversion kits.

And that was my own reasoning when I elected to buy and maintain a single stage alongside my own Dillon 550b. On the other hand no way do I want to load high volume ammo with a single or even a turret. I've come to appreciate the idea of "one pull, one cartridge" that only comes from a proper progressive for all my handgun and volume rifle reloading.

I found during my "dark days" when following a big house move and shop renovations where my Dillon wasn't available that I had to rely on the single stage. I found that starting with clean casings that I got to where I could make 150 to 180 rounds per hour in batches of 50 at a time. This included sizing and decapping on the first pull, then hand priming, then flaring and charging using a powder drop die with powder dispenser on the die and finally seating and crimping on the same final pull. I'm not sure what calibercarstairs is doing for his prep to get the number up to 300 but no way could I have done more than 180 to 200 per hour on a good day.

On the other hand on the Dillon I can crank out 350 to 400 per hour without breaking a sweat and at a pace which allows me to pretty closely monitor for things that don't feel or sound right and double check when that occurs. And most progressives would be at least that fast.

One thing I'll leave you with on the progressive front. I found that it's wise and less of a hassle to have the seating and crimping operations for handgun ammo be in separate steps. And that means you want four dies at a minimum if you want to maintain the "one pull, one cartridge" production format. I spent a lot of hours on a Lee 1000 Progressive before I got my Dillon. And while I got it to work MOST of the time by far the fussiest die to set up was that final position that had to seat and crimp all in one step. On jacketed or plated it wasn't TOO bad but still needed some understanding. But on cast lead bullets it was hyper critical to set the crimp just right and to only use bullets with proper cannelure grooves for cast lead bullets. This is particularly important on any rimless ammo where the rounds seat on the casing mouths. With no cannelure groove it's really easy for the casing mouth to close in and plow some lead ahead of it. And I've got one 1911 here that is really fussy and pukes at that point. The rounds fail to let the slide drop fully into battery due to the ring of lead making the casings seem like they are too long. So for running cast lead bullets in particular a four position or more progressive press for me at least is mandatory.

Take all this for what you will in terms of selecting a press. And from me to you my suggestion for a FIRST press would be the single stage. And having used my Hornady LnL press I'm a huge fan of the idea of the quick load dies with partial twist to lock bushings. Either the Hornady or Lee options would be nice. Otherwise it's a lot of screwing of the dies in and out... OK, laugh it up now... :D

As for a work station if you can't bolt it to a wall and you can't load it up with a lot of heavy junk and bullets to use gravity to clamp it to the floor then be sure that the bench has widely spaced feet so when you lever down that the force does not try to tip the whole thing over. This could be a saw horse at each end with a good sturdy 2x12 clamped to the far end so that the handle's swing is fully confined to within the foot print of the saw horses. In that case things can be quite light with no issue. Otherwise you want some other trick to avoid the bench tipping over. Personally I like gravity best of all. But that doesn't work if you need to put things away after each session. If you need to break things down and keep the bulk small there's a lot to be said for a pair of saw horses and a very sturdy plank laid across them and you and your chair sitting in between the saw horse ends so the pressure is all within the foot print of the horses.
 
Get a progressive if as you say the majority of your reloading will be bulk/plinking 9mm/.223.

I couldn't image pumping out a few K of 9mm on a single or turret press. Later you can add a cheap(er) single stage press if you feel it necessary.
 
Reloading 9mm on a Rockchucker here. Yes it take time, yes I want a Dillon, yes I saved a ton of money on the press, and bought components instead.
 
dan belisle said:
I can't speak to your happiness, but a Lee turret press will allow you to learn with it as a single stage, and then use it as a progressive once you're comfortable. Then if you decide you want faster speed, you can move up to a full progressive, and you will still use the Lee for less volume. Ive been doing this with a Lee and a dillon for decades, works well. - dan
Click to expand...

This.. I love my 4 die Turret press. Quick change die plate, for easy caliber change.

Can turn it into a single stage by simply removing the index rod. I drilled and tapped mine, that locks the die plate, so I don't get the up/down play. Esp when I'm pulling bullets.
 
I am also just starting, and I bought a Lee kit that was $220 on sale and then 2 sets of dies($100 for both) and then I spent $500 on components, so for less than $1000!!
 
Finally made my decision

Thanks to everyone that shared their thoughts,

After much deliberation I settled on getting a turret press.

After searching different vendors online I purchased a Lee Turret press kit, as it was recommended several times on here and was well within my budget. I was able to get the kit for a great price and it includes pretty much everything I would need to get started, I also picked up a long charging die (thanks to the person who mentioned this, otherwise I wouldn't be able to charge my large rifle cases), bullet puller (as I'm sure I'll make a few mistakes starting out) and the Lee quick trim deluxe with the necessary dies, I purchased a spare 3-hole turret plate for use with the trimming dies so I'm not spending as much time switching and adjusting my dies.

I decided to purchase Lee pacesetter dies as they are the most affordable and include the shellholders I will need. I was able to pickup some bullets as well, the reason I want to reload .223 and 9mm is because I can experiment with projectile types such as hollow-points at a price that is lower than the premium ammo that usually is sold with non-FMJ projectiles. I quite enjoy shooting reactive targets (i.e. soda jugs) and love the explosive effect of a hollow-point but don't want to the price for Hornady or Speer duty ammo. If I find I enjoy reloading .223 I will probably move up to loading "bulk" loads with cheaper FMJ projectiles but unless I get a progressive or find myself with a lot of time (I am lucky to still be employed, for now) I'll probably just use 9mm for lower-volume production with expanding projectiles. For now I will be just starting with 9mm, .223 and 6.5 Swedish, I will be moving on to 8mm Mauser once I burn through my stock of Yugo surplus.

Thanks calibrecarstairs for those resources, I will definitely be using them. I still picked up a soft-cover of Lyman 50th edition as I think it will be useful to have a hard-copy to refer to while working.

All in, I got the press, extras mentioned and bullets (x200 .223 and 9mm) for less than $700, hopefully I can find some powder/primers locally, as I would rather not pay the higher shipping costs if I can avoid it.

Thanks again to everybody who took the time to share their experience and offer advice, I hope to have everything setup and started before the new year.

You'll probably be seeing a lot more of me in the sub-forum, hopefully I won't have too many annoying newbie questions :d
 
IzzyTheGreat said:
Thanks to everyone that shared their thoughts,

After much deliberation I settled on getting a turret press.

After searching different vendors online I purchased a Lee Turret press kit, as it was recommended several times on here and was well within my budget. I was able to get the kit for a great price and it includes pretty much everything I would need to get started, I also picked up a long charging die (thanks to the person who mentioned this, otherwise I wouldn't be able to charge my large rifle cases), bullet puller (as I'm sure I'll make a few mistakes starting out) and the Lee quick trim deluxe with the necessary dies, I purchased a spare 3-hole turret plate for use with the trimming dies so I'm not spending as much time switching and adjusting my dies.

I decided to purchase Lee pacesetter dies as they are the most affordable and include the shellholders I will need. I was able to pickup some bullets as well, the reason I want to reload .223 and 9mm is because I can experiment with projectile types such as hollow-points at a price that is lower than the premium ammo that usually is sold with non-FMJ projectiles. I quite enjoy shooting reactive targets (i.e. soda jugs) and love the explosive effect of a hollow-point but don't want to the price for Hornady or Speer duty ammo. If I find I enjoy reloading .223 I will probably move up to loading "bulk" loads with cheaper FMJ projectiles but unless I get a progressive or find myself with a lot of time (I am lucky to still be employed, for now) I'll probably just use 9mm for lower-volume production with expanding projectiles. For now I will be just starting with 9mm, .223 and 6.5 Swedish, I will be moving on to 8mm Mauser once I burn through my stock of Yugo surplus.

Thanks calibrecarstairs for those resources, I will definitely be using them. I still picked up a soft-cover of Lyman 50th edition as I think it will be useful to have a hard-copy to refer to while working.

All in, I got the press, extras mentioned and bullets (x200 .223 and 9mm) for less than $700, hopefully I can find some powder/primers locally, as I would rather not pay the higher shipping costs if I can avoid it.

Thanks again to everybody who took the time to share their experience and offer advice, I hope to have everything setup and started before the new year.

You'll probably be seeing a lot more of me in the sub-forum, hopefully I won't have too many annoying newbie questions :d
Click to expand...

I’m new to reloading as well and went the same direction as you with the Lee Classic Turret Press kit and added some extra turrets to set up for 9mm, .223 and .308 individually. From my very limited experience, reloading components are beginning to run scarce (at least here in SW Ontario) and I would recommend sooner rather than later stocking up on powder and primers. I’ve also been spending quite a bit of time doing as much learning as I can before actually sitting down in front of the press!
 
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