Getting started in rimfire PRS

[adamg]

Hey guys, had the chance to finally get back to the range with some good weather. My Kestrel wouldn't even register a wind speed, things were dead calm.

Settled on the SK LR that I have, was shooting great at 50 yards.

Had some questions regarding dope.

Worked on getting things dialed in further out. I was using Geoballistics. I'm not super well versed in ballistic calcs, but I had used Geo previously. Shot the T1X out to 300m, while monitoring speeds on my Garmin. Had to correct my actual dope quite a bit though compared to the dope on the app. 100m was off by 0.4mil, 200m was off by 0.9mil. Tried correcting via BC, however I was then hitting quite low at 300m. I was running short on daylight so I went home and played with the app further. Tried truing the data on the app using MV. I'm having a hard time getting my real world dope to align with the calculated dope at each distance, however I can get things sort of close (0.1-0.3mil depending on distance). Is this normal? Is there something I'm missing? Better way to do things? Better app? Does it matter for the size of plate in the average match? Etc

*note, I reviewed my environmentals, MV measured vs my input, height over bore measurement, confirmed target disrances with range finder, etc. It all seems correct*

When you hear the Applied Ballistics people claim that their custom drag models are so much better than using BC on an old drag model like G1/G7/RA4, this is the scenario they are referring to.

Hornady makes the same claim with their ballistic calculator.

You will never get a BC number in a BC-based ballistic calculator to exactly match your drop across a very long distance shot - and 300m in 22lr counts as that.

 

[jimbo14]

Since you have your data written down, what you can do for now is create two profiles. One for up to 150-200 yards, and another for beyond that.

You might get the data to line up using two parts, with two different BC values.

 

[Fyn]

Appreciate the responses guys, I think I figured out the majority of my problem. My 50 yard zero wasn't perfect looking back at my target, offset slightly high. I factored that into the calc and the results are much closer to my actual dope I recorded that day.

So I'll chalk that up as a learning experience. Hoping for another calm day to confirm. I did download AB to try as well

 

[adamg]

Appreciate the responses guys, I think I figured out the majority of my problem. My 50 yard zero wasn't perfect looking back at my target, offset slightly high. I factored that into the calc and the results are much closer to my actual dope I recorded that day.

So I'll chalk that up as a learning experience. Hoping for another calm day to confirm. I did download AB to try as well

How are you measuring distance to your targets?
When dealing with long range rimfire, you cannot trust most methods of determining distance to target. The only good, proper way is to measure the distance to each and every target yourself with a laser range finder (or perhaps survey tape). This includes your 50 yard "zero" target. Determining the distance to within 1 yard plus or minus is critical.

 

[duzr]

Make sure your bore height is measured properly and accurately. When making a profile, remember this, garbage in, garbage out.

Applied ballistics on the kestrel 5700 series is the easiest and simplest way to get good dope. Most people have very good success with the AB custom curves, myself included.

If things out further don’t line up, you can use the cal dsf function to fine tune the curve at distance

Using Applied Ballistics on your Kestrel if you have it is good advice. As well, try the AB quantum app that links to your Kestrel and Garmin (if you have a C2), for a different interface that can be quicker and easier to use than the kestrel directlly.

Not to knock Geo but I’ve found AB to be much more accurate and effective once you’ve learned it.

 

[boxhitch]

"D.O.P.E. is always best, trust the target then adjust the app to match" said one gun nut somewhere

 

[Fyn]

Thanks for all the responses guy.

I currently have the C1 chrono, and my Kestrel is just a basic unit (2500 I believe).

I did laser range find all the 100/200/300m targets to confirm actual distance on my previous range trip, HOWEVER I didn't rangefind my 50 yard zero target.

Made another range trip tonight, learned the 50 yard line is actually 57 yards on that range, combined with my zero being slight off, I think that was the majority of my problem.

Tried AB Quantum tonight, still learning but results were better. Bit of wind and cooler temps. When I moved to 100m it was on, at 200m I calibrated with the DSF. Moved out to 300m and everything is looking much better now.

 

[Fyn]

Thought I might as well update this thread, shot my first match yesterday.

Number one thing I learned; regret not doing it sooner.

 

[Fyn]

Trying not to get too far ahead of myself, but I really enjoyed the match and I'm going to try to attend as many as I can this season. Any worthwhile gear recommendations you guys have for someone starting out? Obviously practice is the most important thing.

I ordered two new 15rd magazines after this weekend, mag changes weren't the end of the world but I definitely see the benefit on the 12rd stages.

I have a basic set of binoculars with a mount, which I've thought of upgrading previously (10x Crossfires) but they would probably suffice for now. I also have a lightweight tripod I didn't even bother setting up, as I'm sure the wind would've toppled it. Something more sturdy seems like it would be worthwhile so I can spot/prep. Any advise on something thats a good starting point?

I currently have a basic Kestrel (2500) for wind/environmentals, was using AB Quantum on my phone, and writing down the stage info on a DOPE card on my wrist. It seemed to work fine, I learned a lot about wind as the day went on. Is moving towards something like a 5700 a big upgrade over this?

 

[Bustercluck]

Not sure what rifle you’re using, but I went with a 10 and 15 round mag just in case there’s a place the 15 might get in the way being longer.

And thick masking tape is your friend for writing down your dope… as long as you’re wearing long sleeves.

 

[boxhitch]

I have a basic set of binoculars with a mount, which I've thought of upgrading previously (10x Crossfires) but they would probably suffice for now. I also have a lightweight tripod I didn't even bother setting up, as I'm sure the wind would've toppled it. Something more sturdy seems like it would be worthwhile so I can spot/prep. Any advise on something thats a good starting point?

you could weigh-down the pod you have for now for more stability and if you can watch someone elses misses to help judge wind then your binos are fine
To get by I bought a KFConcept tripod rated at 35lb and ditched the ball head and went with a leveling head

BOG has a few offerings, mostly too short for me though (

 

[Fyn]

you could weigh-down the pod you have for now for more stability and if you can watch someone elses misses to help judge wind then your binos are fine
To get by I bought a KFConcept tripod rated at 35lb and ditched the ball head and went with a leveling head

BOG has a few offerings, mostly too short for me though (

The height was something I never considered until I watched a review and realized most of the tripods I was looking at are too short for me as well

 

[dastt]

Trying not to get too far ahead of myself, but I really enjoyed the match and I'm going to try to attend as many as I can this season. Any worthwhile gear recommendations you guys have for someone starting out? Obviously practice is the most important thing.

I ordered two new 15rd magazines after this weekend, mag changes weren't the end of the world but I definitely see the benefit on the 12rd stages.

I have a basic set of binoculars with a mount, which I've thought of upgrading previously (10x Crossfires) but they would probably suffice for now. I also have a lightweight tripod I didn't even bother setting up, as I'm sure the wind would've toppled it. Something more sturdy seems like it would be worthwhile so I can spot/prep. Any advise on something thats a good starting point?

I currently have a basic Kestrel (2500) for wind/environmentals, was using AB Quantum on my phone, and writing down the stage info on a DOPE card on my wrist. It seemed to work fine, I learned a lot about wind as the day went on. Is moving towards something like a 5700 a big upgrade over this?

Amazon has some really good budget tripods, I used an innorel 32mm for 4 seasons. Right now it can be had for about $300. You can get a ball head for under $100 as well. I hang my backpack from my tripod for added weight with a rope and carabiner.

Your vortex crossfire binos are more then sufficient for rimfire prs.

As far as the kestrel is concerned, a 5700 elite I would consider the bare minimum if you ever want to be competitive. People will tell you a phone app is good enough, but those people have likely never been close to a podium. The quantum AB app however is really good, I know some top shooters are dabbling with it now, but still prefer using the kestrel.


One thing you might want to look for is a scope mounted dope card holder, it puts your dope in your line of sight so you don’t have to look at your arm. Another thing would be a turret tape so you can mark your turrets. You’ll see people colour code their dope and turret markings so you don’t even have to look at your dope card. These can be found at IDTS.com and are turret specific.

Any other gear and rifle upgrades I’d say your best to keep shooting matches, and ask people in your squad or at the match to try different bags or gear to see what you like before purchasing. People are very generous when it comes to lending gear, so don’t be afraid to ask.


Don’t be discouraged when you see the amount of money people have invested in gear compared to your own, most people have many years acquiring stuff, you don’t need to break the bank all at once to have fun or even be competitive.

 

[Fyn]

Amazon has some really good budget tripods, I used an innorel 32mm for 4 seasons. Right now it can be had for about $300. You can get a ball head for under $100 as well. I hang my backpack from my tripod for added weight with a rope and carabiner.

Your vortex crossfire binos are more then sufficient for rimfire prs.

As far as the kestrel is concerned, a 5700 elite I would consider the bare minimum if you ever want to be competitive. People will tell you a phone app is good enough, but those people have likely never been close to a podium. The quantum AB app however is really good, I know some top shooters are dabbling with it now, but still prefer using the kestrel.


One thing you might want to look for is a scope mounted dope card holder, it puts your dope in your line of sight so you don’t have to look at your arm. Another thing would be a turret tape so you can mark your turrets. You’ll see people colour code their dope and turret markings so you don’t even have to look at your dope card. These can be found at IDTS.com and are turret specific.

Any other gear and rifle upgrades I’d say your best to keep shooting matches, and ask people in your squad or at the match to try different bags or gear to see what you like before purchasing. People are very generous when it comes to lending gear, so don’t be afraid to ask.


Don’t be discouraged when you see the amount of money people have invested in gear compared to your own, most people have many years acquiring stuff, you don’t need to break the bank all at once to have fun or even be competitive.

Beautiful, thanks for the response. I do plan on acquiring things and upgrading as I go but it's nice to know what I can prioritize/get away with for the time being. It is hard to not to feel a little "outgunned" when looking around a match lol.

I was actually looking at the Innorels, pricepoint is definitely attractive, good to hear from people using them personally.

I did order a scope mounted dope card holder tonight actually, the wrist coach was working well, but it definitely looked much easier to have that info in line of sight. I did notice a lot of people using the wet erase turret tapes, several people recommended them. There was a few stages with a lot of dialing and I can totally see the benefit.

 

[dastt]

Beautiful, thanks for the response. I do plan on acquiring things and upgrading as I go but it's nice to know what I can prioritize/get away with for the time being. It is hard to not to feel a little "outgunned" when looking around a match lol.

I was actually looking at the Innorels, pricepoint is definitely attractive, good to hear from people using them personally.

I did order a scope mounted dope card holder tonight actually, the wrist coach was working well, but it definitely looked much easier to have that info in line of sight. I did notice a lot of people using the wet erase turret tapes, several people recommended them. There was a few stages with a lot of dialing and I can totally see the benefit.

As someone who’s been in this game along time, I would recommend this for prioritizing gear:

1. A good front bag
2. The best match ammo you can afford to buy in bulk
3. The best scope you can afford. A used gen3 razor is your best bang for the buck, there are lots of great options for a reasonable price.
4. Some sort of chassis. Having the adjustability, and the ability to tune weight to balance perfectly.
5. A kestrel 5700 elite
6. Bino set up for spotting


If you have those 6 things you can be very competitive. Once you decide this is something you want to invest in, you can upgrade bits as you go.