Getting started with aperture sights for rimfire:

[Biologist]

Got myself started with target sight aperture shooting, benchrest with rifle supported with front rest and rear bag. I plan to try unsupported positional shooting soon, once I get some experience on the bench with the apertures.

My only experience target shooting is with high magnification scopes, so this is very new to me. I am already hooked and cannot get enough of it. I am over 60 so unsure if the body and eyes will last, but here goes....

I have several topics to talk about, so I will break them out in separate posts.

First topic is the gear:

Already had the Anschutz 1907 with the dovetail rails on receiver and barrel behind the muzzle, so its made for aperture sights.

Nordic Marksman had the sights I needed. I bought the Anschutz 6834 sight set M18, (entry level, but good entry level), and a set of plastic aperture inserts for the front sight.



Those front sight caps are handy. I am discovering that the plastic inserts get covered in finger prints and dust very easily, and the caps provide some protection for the front sight in transport. I also bought a padded carrying case for the sights.

The byline for the Rimfire forum is "Fun stuff that won't break your piggy bank...". I think rimfire is putting some stress on my piggy bank!

Took me a while to understand what the Germans mean by up and down elevation dialing. Up and down are the opposite of what it means to me for an optical scope.



Up "H" (for "Hoch" translates to English "Up") will dial the rear aperture housing down and makes POI go down. Down ("T" for "Tief" (I think) translates to English "Deep"), will dial the aperture housing up and make POI go up. I don't get what Anschutz means by up and down (deep) dialing arrow direction, but anyways I figured it out and its all good. The dials are very crisp and clicky.

The rifle with aperture sights mounted:



I now know I need a backwards rail extender for the rear sight. At the bench I am craning my neck to get to the rear aperture and its not comfortable, but the extension rail should fix that.

My spotting scope was set up on a full size tripod behind the bench off the left side of this frame. I do not yet have a secure bench-top tripod for the spotting scope.

Next post topic: Front aperture size and 50m/yard target sizes:

 

[Biologist]

Front aperture size and 50m/yard target sizes:

For 50m/yard distance: I have some questions about front sight aperture size, and the issue is complicated with the target size questions I have about the official size(s) of the black bull for a 50m/yard target (depending on the shooting discipline)

I got some targets printed on 65lb paper from a target I made on my computer using the ISSF rule book specifications for their 50m 3-position shooting target. I think I got it proportionally very close. The photo below shows metric ruler scale on the black bull diameter measuring 11.2cm to 11.3cm, which is what the specs say "from part of 3 to 10 rings = 112.4 mm (±0.5 mm)". See below for the 50m target specs excerpt from the the ISSF rule book I found online.



From ISSF Technical Rules, 2020, page 232
(It says not to print the 9 and 10, but I printed the 9 anyway):

"6.3.4.2: 50m Rifle Target (A-50 in NRA Rulebook)
Inner Ten = 5 mm (±0.1 mm). = .20”
10 Ring 10.4 mm (±0.1 mm ) = .41”
9 Ring 26.4 mm (±0.1 mm ) = 1.04”
8 Ring 42.4 mm (±0.2 mm ) = 1.67”
7 Ring 58.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 2.30”
6 Ring 74.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 2.93”
5 Ring 90.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 3.56”
4 Ring 106.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 4.19”
3 Ring 122.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 4.82”
2 Ring 138.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 5.45”
1 Ring 154.4 mm (±0.5 mm ) = 6.08”

Black aiming ring: from part of 3 to 10 rings = 112.4 mm (±0.5 mm). = 4.43”
Ring Thickness: 0.2 mm to 0.3 mm. = 0.008” to 0.012” (choose 0.01”)
Minimum visible size of target card: 250 mm x 250 mm. = 9.84” x 9.84”
Scoring ring values 1 – 8 are printed in the scoring zones in vertical and horizontal
lines, at right angles to each other.
The 9 and 10-point zones are not marked with a number."


Online research indicates there are many target sizes for the 50m/yard range, e.g., European vs NRA, 50m, 50yd, 50yd conversion downsized from a 50m, 50m conversion upsized from a 50yd, 3-position, prone only, etc. And I think the Biathlon might have 2 sizes for standing and prone? Anyways to me it seems complicated!

If anyone has a source of official 50m targets from a Canadian shooting gear supplier please let me know, I would gladly purchase a pack of targets to support them. I found a USA supplier, but they don't ship to Canada.

The smallest plastic insert in my kit is 3.2mm. I think it might be on the large size for the "official" 50m target I made to ISSF specifications. The white ring I see seems awful big and I would like it a little thinner. I want to try front sight apertures in the range of 2.8mm - 3.0mm for 50m distance.

Eyesight issues: Eyes are over 60 years old and I wear prescription bifocals. Looking through the top of my top lens, no issues so far, other than reduced field of view through the rear aperture because my eyeglasses won't let me get close enough. But I can still see the entire front sight and plenty of area around the globe, including seeing my wind flags if I lined them up properly.

Next topic: Shooting results:

 

[Biologist]

Shooting results:

Ammo for today's practice at 50m was the purple SK Flat Nosed Match. Its new to me and I don't yet know if my rifle likes it.

Today's conditions: Medium winds with gusts from right to left, and switches. Photo below shows my flags switching.



The angle of these flags is important to guess the hold. Today in the wind where I could not wait forever for it to cease, I had to hold to the right, and sometimes to the point of the black target almost touching the edge of the ring. I had no idea how much to hold, and the results show the wind stringing to the left. Holding for wind with apertures is going to be an interesting learning curve.

Both targets shown below are two on the same sheet turned vertical (portrait), so the numbers look are upside down and sideways. This was a mistake in how I pinned it to the backer because the elevation difference changes the shooting position of the rifle on the bench. Next time I will shoot this pinned as horizontal (landscape) orientation so the elevation on both targets is identical.

Target 1, 10 rounds, score = 91-1X, group size = 0.955"



Target 2, 10 rounds, score = 89-2X, group size = 1.504"



I was fairly pleased with the waterline (vertical) on both targets. My wind calls and holds were not good enough to stop the leftward wind stringing. On target #2 the far right round ruined the group - it was an aggressive wind hold to the right, but I think the wind must have dropped just when I pulled the trigger. Not an excuse - wind reading skills are a huge part of this outdoor sport. I need alot more practice.

One upgrade accessory I am already researching is an iris for the front sight. The specs for them list a wide range of front aperture adjustment, with contrasting black outer ring, and no fiddling with inserts.

 

[AlexisCreek]

With those sights on that rifle, you're starting with gear that I'd say is well above entry level. Entry level for most would be nicely used 1970s model CIL/Anschutz 190 with the Anschutz sights of the day, or a BSA 12/15 or International. For ISSF targets, reduced pistol targets are readily available online from the Shooting Federation of Canada target store or Cibles Canada. Many shooters prepare their own reduced targets using the official ISSF dimensions and reducing them by calculation, as your post describes. With pistol targets I have noticed that with the "official" reduced size versions, the rings are slightly smaller than the calculated sizes. I don't know why. I've seen some suggestion in discussions on line that this further small reduction is because of some formula to do with the properties of the eye in perceiving distance. And of course you'll always score higher with a reduced target because the bullet diameter stays the same and it's relatively smaller on a 50 m target than the 20 m version.

 

[AlexisCreek]

Let me add, good for you, that's a fine setup and it'll shoot very accurately out to 200 yards. Way more satisfying than shooting a 22 with a scope to my mind. Nordic has slings (the kind of half sling that runs between the forward part of the handguard and your bicep) which helps steady the rifle for freehand shooting (prone, kneeling, standing).

 

[big boar]

Welcome to the club of “aging” Target Rifle shooters, I’m mid 60’s & the eyes went South 20 years ago. Bi-focals help a lot. Your neck is “craning” because the Annie you have is VERY NICE & with all the adjustment plates on the Butt, isn’t meant to be shot off a bench. It’s primarily a prone stock but you can remove the plates and shorten the LOP making bench shooting easier.
If your older eyes are struggling with the sight picture, Nordic has a few rear sight IRIS inserts WITH a DIOPTER. Also for the front sight they have a few styles of IRIS’s so you can adjust your diameters with just a twist. It’s easier to adjust for sunny/dark days and when changing target distances.

 

[AikiNut]

The sights on my Walther GSP (General Sport Pistole) are also marked T bei H and L bei R. They're "if you're shooting Low, turn this way" and "if you're shooting high turn this way", same for Links (Left) and Rechts.

This is the appropriate page from the pistol manual - your mm/click will vary significantly but the concepts are the same

 

[Potashminer]

...

The angle of these flags is important to guess the hold. Today in the wind where I could not wait forever for it to cease, I had to hold to the right, and sometimes to the point of the black target almost touching the edge of the ring. I had no idea how much to hold, and the results show the wind stringing to the left. Holding for wind with apertures is going to be an interesting learning curve.

...

I am maybe at same stage as you - I will be 67 in a few weeks - never even tried aperture sights until a few years ago - like about 50 or 60 years too late!! Is several rimfires and lever guns that do not look right with scopes, but I can live with apertures - especially since they still seem to work, whereas the barrel mounted rear leaf sights getting to be pretty "iffy".

What I bolded - how far I have to go - did not know that one would "hold off" for wind, shooting at bulls eye targets - for some reason I thought you dialed in windage on rear sight and held dead centre? Was not a thing in "old days" to mess with scope or sight settings - always "held off" for windage or elevation - but I was under the impression that is what precision target aperture sights were meant to do - dial in the correction - not to "hold off", any more. But I truly know about nothing of that - will need experience to speak up about it.

 

[AikiNut]

I am maybe at same stage as you - I will be 67 in a few weeks - never even tried aperture sights until a few years ago - like about 50 or 60 years too late!! Is several rimfires and lever guns that do not look right with scopes, but I can live with apertures - especially since they still seem to work, whereas the barrel mounted rear leaf sights getting to be pretty "iffy".

What I bolded - how far I have to go - did not know that one would "hold off" for wind, shooting at bulls eye targets - for some reason I thought you dialed in windage on rear sight and held dead centre? Was not a thing in "old days" to mess with scope or sight settings - always "held off" for windage or elevation - but I was under the impression that is what precision target aperture sights were meant to do - dial in the correction - not to "hold off", any more. But I truly know about nothing of that - will need experience to speak up about it.

Yup - you dial in the windage and hold dead centre. Check wind flags before each shot, mark each shot on your tracking sheet along with what your sight setting was, and remember how the flags were for the previous shot. Also watch for mirage - "Light up, sight down"
(that one caught me once at 900 m - sun came out and I got two just out of the bull at 12:00 before I lowered the sight a click)

 

[Biologist]

Regarding dialing for windage and keeping the black centered: Yes I though this was the normal way......but my wind flags are moving constantly and may stay dropped for half a split second to squeeze off a centered shot.....but sometimes the flags never stop moving up and down, and left and right, forward and backward. For much of my session I could not wait "forever" for a calm period and just had to make a hold and shoot within a split second, guessing the hold, before the angle and direction of the flag changed.

The windage dial is on the right and I shoot right handed, so I would have to move my hand between grip and dial. The clicks are very tactile and audible with electronic ear muffs, so I can stay on the rifle sights - maybe next time I will practice wind dialing by feel and click count and shooting, but its going to be tricky. That "entry level" rear sight moves the POI 2mm per click at 50m, which might be easier that the 1mm per click on the more expensive rear sights.

That 50m range in the photo has 9 benches/shooting lanes, and the berms make it seem like its down in a hole or wind tunnel, and the wind when blowing is constantly swirling, and it swirls differently depending on which lane you are in. It would be so nice to have a flat open expanse where there was a chance for a constant wind that is predictable.

This sport is so fun, I wonder why every town does not have an indoor 50m rimfire target range.

 

[AikiNut]

Biologist.. You're right about variable winds messing up your shots. My rear sights are either 1/3 minute or 1/4 minute clicks depending on whether it's the 5.56 or 7.62 TR. The DCRA TR shooting is a bit more forgiving than 50 m bullseye so a slight variation in wind isn't so bad if the group is centered. I would check the wind, make a click one way or another, aim, check wind, check aim, and shoot, note how the shot felt (good? Pull?) and while waiting for the spotter to mark the hit, write down what click I'd made. Tracking the sights that way (oops, too much, oops, not enough, aha, spot on) tended to work for me. Others may have other madnes... er. methods..

 

[skwerl]

With those sights on that rifle, you're starting with gear that I'd say is well above entry level. Entry level for most would be nicely used 1970s model CIL/Anschutz 190 with the Anschutz sights of the day, or a BSA 12/15 or International. For ISSF targets, reduced pistol targets are readily available online from the Shooting Federation of Canada target store or Cibles Canada. Many shooters prepare their own reduced targets using the official ISSF dimensions and reducing them by calculation, as your post describes. With pistol targets I have noticed that with the "official" reduced size versions, the rings are slightly smaller than the calculated sizes. I don't know why. I've seen some suggestion in discussions on line that this further small reduction is because of some formula to do with the properties of the eye in perceiving distance. And of course you'll always score higher with a reduced target because the bullet diameter stays the same and it's relatively smaller on a 50 m target than the 20 m version.

Hey A C amusing you should say that ;
my entry into open sights was the 1960's CIL 125 ...

 

[CanuckCooper]

Biologist wrote: Took me a while to understand what the Germans mean by up and down elevation dialing. Up and down are the opposite of what it means to me for an optical scope.

View attachment 613222

Up "H" (for "Hoch" translates to English "Up") will dial the rear aperture housing down and makes POI go down. Down ("T" for "Tief" (I think) translates to English "Deep"), will dial the aperture housing up and make POI go up. I don't get what Anschutz means by up and down (deep) dialing arrow direction, but anyways I figured it out and its all good.
View attachment 613223

That’s a gorgeous rifle you got there Biologist! I ran into the same thing regarding the sights when I started. I was taught “Hoch” =High, “Teif”= Low, L=Left, and R= Right, and I was to taught to dial the direction your round impacted in relation to your point of aim. So for instance, if my rounds printed high, dial high…. If they printed right of my point of aim, dial right…. I was told to think of it like “telling the rifle where the rounds went”….

I think those sights are 1/6th moa per click or roughly 2mm per click at 50 meters. My Anschutz has a slightly shorter barrel than yours and my same sights end up being closer to 3mm per click for me at that distance.

Again gorgeous rifle. Hope you give sporting rifle a try with it. If you do, it might be a touch on the heavy side but it wouldn’t be a big deal at club level matches.

 

[250-25X]

If anyone has a source of official 50m targets from a Canadian shooting gear supplier please let me know, I would gladly purchase a pack of targets to support them.

You can get 50 meter ISSF targets from the shooting Federation of Canada: https://sfc.gilmoreglobal.com/en/product/5908173f-d26d-467c-8a9b-d1f6ab25af15

You can also get center patches from Cibles Canada Targets: http://www.targets.ca/node/174

 

[Potashminer]

I have a pack of about 250 of those from Cibles - I hope they are correct - I would say the 10 ring about .44" and the black bull about 4.2" or so - of course, I just went to find them to confirm and not finding!!! Time to "clean shop" I guess??? As I recall, they were "patches" - perhaps 6" x 6" or so - meant to set onto something larger, I presume. The "x-ring" as I recall, used in some competitions but not all of them, was smaller than a .22 bullet hole. Was an "old school" "free rifle" event where top several shooters tied at perfect scores - Olympics (?) circa mid 1950's - no rests - four position - standing, sitting, kneeling and prone - 10 rounds fired from each position. I can not do "perfect" score from sandbags with my Schultz and Larsen Model 61 free rifle, seated at my shooting table - they must have been absolutely awesome shooters in those days!!! No doubt using the best ammo available at that time - like 50 or 60 years ago!!

 

[250-25X]

I have a pack of about 250 of those from Cibles - I hope they are correct - I would say the 10 ring about .44"

The 10 ring on the ISSF target is 10,4mm

 

[maynard]

I would suggest an iris for your rear sight, nothing fancy with coloured filters, polorizers and any of that crap, just a basic iris. It will help define the front sight. Next up is the front sight insert. Again, a front iris is nice to have, however if you are only shooting one distance inserts work. On a side note, shooting on US NRA smallbore targets at 50 yards, 50m and 100 yards the front sight insert remains the same size. Now as far as the insert size goes, go big. Aim at the edge of the aiming mark and it should only use up 1/2 of of the hole in the front sight. In other words, you should see a lot of white around the aiming mark. New shooters tend to want to use smaller inserts thinking that it is easier to center, not true. If I was your coach, I would glue a 4.0 into the front sight and tell you that is the only size they come in.
I think BB hit the nail on the head about your butt plate. The way your stock it set up it is for positional shooting where in the prone position your eye would be about 2-3 inches behind the sight. From a bench, your head is too far back. Try taking the butt plate ass'y off and see if that gets your head closer to where it would be if shooting prone.

Edit to add: think of you sight adjustments like it is a wood screw. screw it out to move the shot right, screw it in to move the shot left. Elevation screwing it in will move the shot down, unscrewing it will make the shot go up.

 

[JQIAN]

I am in discussion with Brad from Nordic to buy a set of target sights for my newly acquired 1761 MPR.
Winter is coming, and I moving to indoor range now, which has only 25 meters.
By the way, any particular target size for 25 meters or maybe a bit shorter like 20 yards? I probably will start with standing position.
Besides, why do you choose M18 instead of M22, is the 22mm front sight outer ring too big for your taste or any other technical reason?

As suggested by others, an iris aperture for rear sight will be helpful. A simple one with 0.8 to 2.2 costs no more than $100.

 

[CanuckCooper]

I am in discussion with Brad from Nordic to buy a set of target sights for my newly acquired 1761 MPR.
Winter is coming, and I moving to indoor range now, which has only 25 meters.
By the way, any particular target size for 25 meters or maybe a bit shorter like 20 yards? I probably will start with standing position.
Besides, why do you choose M18 instead of M22, is the 22mm front sight outer ring too big for your taste or any other technical reason?

As suggested by others, an iris aperture for rear sight will be helpful. A simple one with 0.8 to 2.2 costs no more than $100.

You can find the SFC 20 yard sorting rifle target here, it might be suitable for what you’re wanting to do: http://sfc.gilmoreglobal.com/download/pdf/df36556b-db2f-4913-8638-037e90866fa0

The M22 sight is meant for longer sight radius’s, think ISSF match rifles with barrel sleeves that extend the sight radius. I’d bet you’d be fine with an M18.

More info on sporting rifle and those targets can be found here: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2308845-Sporting-Rife-and-Hunting-Rifle-Shooting-Federation-of-Canada

 

[maynard]

The 22mm front sight tunnel will let more light in. About 30 years ago even fullbore shooters used 18mm tunnels, then came along the 22mm, now some have gone up to a 30mm tunnel. On a fullbore range you still see the odd 18mm, some that went the way of the 22mm then 30mm have gone back to 22mm. I would say right now it is about 2% using 18mm, 28% using 22mm and 70% using 30mm front tunnels.