Gewehr 43 Safe Powders, Issued Ammo Question

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Lahti

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Hello,

First question, what ammo would a German soldier have in their pouch during the latter war years? I am aware there were 150, 174 and 196 grain loadings at different points but have heard some were meant for MG's, etc... I know later on it was probably whatever was available and all that, but I was curious if anyone has a source on what they were actually intended to use in Gewehr 43's and Kar 98's. My understanding is 150 grain was phased out by 1930's, with 196 and later on ersatz 174 grain which would shoot to the same point of aim used but haven't had this confirmed. Any book sources on this would be helpful.

Second question, I have a Geweher 43 with the smallest aperature of the shooting kit installed. I used to load CCI #34 primers, 43-44 grains of H4895 and use a 150 grain Hornady projectile, it would cycle well. Unfortunately, haven't seen H4895 powder in 2 years. My goal is for reliable cycling ammo with complete burning powder with minimum stress on the rifle. Light loads and not original bullet weights are fine with me but would love to hear anyone who does match the original load.

I was wondering what powders have close to the right burn rate for this gas system, if these would also work in an FN-49 as well. Also, what projectiles people have had success with? Given component shortages, I'd love to hear as many options as possible, they also might be of use to others. Is Accurate 2520 suitable? I'd love to hear why a powder is good too, and if it works for any other milsurp semi auto actions. Like, are all Garand safe powders ok, etc... The more info you're willing to add the better!

TLDR, what were they meant to originally carry in the 40's, what are all the safe soft shooting combinations of powder and bullet used and why?

Thanks,

Lahti
 
My choice for the G43, FN-49 is 4895 or 4064 or I use the reclaimed powder from 7.62x54R.
All about the same bullet weight 150 gr and 44 gr of above mentioned powder.
Both work fine good accuracy and easy on the actions.
The G43 of course has the shooters kit and replacement springs that are a lot stiffer than the originals.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far. I'm assuming IMR 4895 works as well, knowing the load data isn't the exact same as for H4895?

Any experience with other powders? I notice both those powders are in the M1 Garand section of my reloading manual. Are powders with Garand safe burn rates ok for the Gewehr 43 as well or is there more to it than that, like staying on the faster or slower end of them? Varget, Accurate 2520, or powders like that?

Also, I don't have many 150 grain projectiles and they seem hard to come by. Any issue with using heavier bullets with the same powders but lighter charges? I'm assuming lighter is easier on the gun even for the same pressure as less inertia to overcome to get the bullet moving and shorter bullet so less contact surface to wear the rifling so I'll stick to 150 whenever I can. Wondering if 174 or 198 grain if I have no other components is noticably harder on the gun or if for the same pressure I'm really splitting hairs here. Feel this is the sort of rifle where that is worth considering though.

Definitely hoping to use the 150 grains and 4895 or 4064 going forward but can't find any of those components consistently now.

Thanks, Lahti
 
I use IMR 4064 in my g43 with a shooters kit installed. The load is on the high side of half way between the max load and starting in my Lyman manual and I use 150gr projectiles. Cycles the gun reliably and doesn’t fling brass too far. Unfortunately my rifle came with a shooters kit installed but no other apertures so I’m unsure what size is installed. Also cycles my fn49 but I like shooting the g43 more any way so it’s more tuned for that.
 
I have shot bullets in the 175 gr range in the M1 Garand, G43, 1941 Johnson. FN 49 etc,
Just use the Lyman or Hornady manual and start low, use the Crony and observe ejection pattern.
Another powder I forgot to mention is 3031, used it in the Garand quite a bit when it was available, worked well.
One mod. I did on the Garand i modified the gas plug to enlarge the gas chamber, bored it out on the lathe, this evens the peak gas pressures, and is easier on the op rod.
 
I was at a Military type steel plate shoot this fall, and one fellow from the Calgary area was using PPU 175gr Sp projectiles in his G43. I think he said he used IMR 4895. His loads functioned just fine with the Apfeltor kit installed in his rifle. Ejected cases stayed within about 6 feet. His son used it to good effect out to 600 yards!
 
Thanks for all the feedback!
By the sounds of it I’ll keep to 150 grain bullets and 174 grain if 150’s aren’t around but steer clear from the 198’s.
Use IMR 4895 since H 4895 isn’t around and both will work, and use IMR 4064 also if I find that, maybe also 3031.

I’ll steer clear of other powders unless any others are suggested to err on the side of caution.

Happy to hear any more input but I greatly appreciate the advice thus far! Was getting tired of waiting for H4895 to reappear.
 
I have used Varget in the M1 Garand as well, according to the Hornady handbook, 42.3 gr starting load, 2400 fps.
Best to get a few loading manuals like Hornady and Lyman , they list a lot more powders
 
Sorry might not have worded my question well. I’ve got the Hornady manual and am familiar with most of those powders, and with the need to use ones that generate the right pressure at the gas port. Big fan of H4895, Varget and Acccurate 2495 and 2520 in it.

Where the Gewehr 43 has a less robust action and no Gewehr 43 specific 8mm Mauser data published, I was wondering if other garand safe powders would also be the right call for that gas system as well. If this were just for my FN 49 I wouldn’t worry about using a safe 8mm Mauser load with any of the Garand safe powders. I’m sure the German powder had a different burn rate than the American stuff but I’m assuming there’s some overlap in what works, just didn’t want to pick a garand safe powder that happens to be on the faster or slower end of the Garand safe range and find out that’s well outside of what should be used in the Gewehr 43. As in, is it meant for overall faster or overall slower powders than the Garand gas system.

Sorry if that was needlessly long winded!
 
The G43 action ( flapper lock system ) is plenty strong, the issue is that it's way overgassed resulting in the bolt striking the back of the receiver and cracking it and also damaging the bolt cover.
Like i said in my earlier post, I only shoot mine with a shooting kit with the smallest insert that will still let it cycle and of course a new set of springs.
I have been using the starting loads for 8mm Mauser for years and they work fine.
If you really want to go easy on the action you can replace the orifice in the piston of the shooting kit with a blank, that converts the rifle into a straight pull bolt action, tried that too, it works.
 
I assume your FN-49 is an Egyptian one in 8 mm Mauser ??
If it is, be very careful, the Egyptian ones are the only ones that don't have a firing pin safety lock on them, there are lots of
reports of them slam firing some with disastrous results.
Best take the bolt apart and make sure it has a two piece firing pin and the strongest possible firing pin spring on the front pin.
One thing I always do with all my semis is to chamber a primed case and let the bolt fly home at maximum speed, than check the primer for any indents, that will give a good indication how safe the rifle is.
 
Yes, it is an Egyptian FN-49. I've not been able to shoot it yet as I haven't been able to locate a 2 piece firing pin.
The 1 piece firing pin it came with was actually bent and would bind, I'm happy it didn't go to someone who wouldn't have checked as I dont think it would have made it 5 rounds.
I use CCI 34 primers for most of my semi autos to be on the safe side, this will be no exception but thank you for the suggestion of trying a primer only first.
 
Finally managed to get components and test the Gewehr 43 loads, 44 grains of IMR 4895 in new PPU brass.
Hornady 150 gn Interlock projectiles seated to 2.975 COL went 2260 feet per second, as opposed to the 2500 fps my loading manual suggests.
Speer 150 gn SP projectiles seated to 2.955 COL went 2300 feet per second.

With smallest aperature the rifle ran well, absolutely mangled the mouth of the brass case though and threw them 15 feet. Watching it in slow motion it looks like the case gets flung out to the right before the piston even returns forward and spins so fast the mouth of the case hits the right side of the stamped bolt housing before flying forward and to the right clear of the gun.

Aside from the slightly lower than expected velocity and probably unavoidable brass carnage, seems to work well.

Given Accurate 2495 is directly between H and IMR 4895 I may also try this as well, also with 44 grains to have another powder option.

I appreciate the feedback on this, thank you for your help, just thought I'd report back how it ended up.
 
My G43 leaves a tiny dent in the case mouth, after resizing not even visible anymore.
Brass lands about 6 to 7 feet away.
Did you replace the springs in it, mine came from Frontline Militaria from Holland and are a lot stiffer than the originals.
Also, what size is the orifice in your shooters kit, I just checked mine and it is just over 1 mm, a 1 mm drill bit goes through, but a 1.5 mm does not , so possibly 1.25 mm, I made some of mine on the lathe, believe with a # 55 or # 56 drill bit.
 
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