Gewehr 71/84

Nabs

Nabs

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Any one here ever reloaded for the .43 Mauser caliber ? I am looking to take my beauty to the range and wish to use black powder or even black powder substitute. I have heard of differences between the two and just hoping someone here can clarify for me. I asked in the Reloading forum and got a some replies but I'm still curious so I thought I would try here.

On a different note, I'm looking at my 71/84 and I think there is the possibility of her being, at one time, a Jaeger version with the rear sling mount on the butt stock but I'm not sure as I have never seen a comparison piece with that specific area in detail. If she was ever one of these rifles, she is missing the mount. There is a small indentation right in around the area where the mount would sit as well. Does anyone have a Jaeger version in their collection or a close up photo of the butt stock area with the rear sling mount in view ?

Thanks guys!
 
I would avoid the substitutes. I reloaded with Pyrodex when I first started out, because "experts" said "Black Powder fouling is highly corrosive, Pyrodex is easier on your barrel." Just the opposite is true. Some of the newer substitutes are better, but BP is still the simplest to load. Just remember to clean your brass. One trick I've used, after I've finished shooting BP, I fire one smokeless round loaded with a wax bullet. Cleans out almost 90% of the fouling instantly. Just remember to back up the wax with several cardboard wads, or the bullet will just melt! I've never had trouble with fouling getting into the action, so that shouldn't be an issue. Good thing, too. They're a bugger to strip down. Is your 71/84 a two or three band model?
 
She is still in her original configuration, three banded as well. I will admit I am new to reloading even greener when it comes to loading for black powder. I just wish to shoot the rifle as she is in good to very good overall condition with a good to very good bore.

Your right, stripping the 71/84 is no easy task. I took her apart three times for inspection, cleaning, and to manually push the lifter up after I pushed it down when the bolt was out. My guess is that she has not been back to Spandau arsenal or any arsenal since she was made as the screws looked pristine and untouched. There isn't even a single pit anywhere on the metal only patina and some lack of bluing on the exterior surfaces. I have not taken the lifter assembly apart as many of the screws are still intact and I do not wish to peel them with a screw driver (as some of the other screws have peeled...talk about soft steel). After cleaning, it does operate flawlessly where it was somewhat stuck before.

I am currently working on a deal with a dealer for the brass, bullets (or bullet mold ?), primers, and powder.

I hate to pry but may I request a walk through on the wax bullet and the loading process for this caliber ?
 
Mine is in similar condition, tiger striped stock, and not a mark on the bluing. The receiver had turned brown, but I polished it back to its original glory. For the wax bullets, I just use my fireforming load. Eight grains or so of Red Dot with cream of wheat, one waxed cardboard milk carton disk, and a "bullet" made by pushing the case mouth into a thick beeswax cake. Usually 1/2" thick or slightly more. It's not really necessary, but if you find the clean-up intimidating, it might be worthwhile. Reason I asked if it's a two or three band rifle, I think there was a Jagerbusche version that had a slightly shorter barrel with two bands. Does it have unit marks on the buttplate? If it does, you can post them on Gunboards and find out where the rifle was issued, and to whom. They really are fantastic rifles, incredibly well made. There was a fellow selling repro slings on e-bay for them, and they're well worth the money. Made out of real leather, not that Indian or Chinese stuff that IMA sells. I bought one, and it really made the rifle look complete.
 
The rifle is unit marked, I posted it on a blog for the Gewehr 88 and found that rifle was issued to an Infantry replacement regiment in West Prussia. I also ordered a sling from the same guy on e-bay, he has supplied two slings for my Gewehr 88/05 and my Gewehr 98 and both are exceptionally well made.

I really love my 71/84, the work man ship that went into her is just amazing. I can't believe they even stamped the serial number on even the smallest of screws.

Some friends have suggested smokeless powder but I am not sure about this option. It has also been suggested to try using a bit of "Windex" when it comes to neutralizing the corrosivity of the black powder when I am at the range, how viable is this option ?
 
Nabs said:
The rifle is unit marked, I posted it on a blog for the Gewehr 88 and found that rifle was issued to an Infantry replacement regiment in West Prussia. I also ordered a sling from the same guy on e-bay, he has supplied two slings for my Gewehr 88/05 and my Gewehr 98 and both are exceptionally well made.

I really love my 71/84, the work man ship that went into her is just amazing. I can't believe they even stamped the serial number on even the smallest of screws.

Some friends have suggested smokeless powder but I am not sure about this option. It has also been suggested to try using a bit of "Windex" when it comes to neutralizing the corrosivity of the black powder when I am at the range, how viable is this option ?
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I have used Windex all-surface cleaner marked "with vinegar" on the label, and it works well. So does generic blue window cleaner I bought from Fields for $1.00, but not the stuff that smells of ammonia. I've also used "Fluid Film", that stuff is AWESOME! Black Powder residue is not really corrosive. The effect of leaving the residue in the bore is similar to leaving tissue paper, or cloth in the barrel. Either will cause rust if left in the bore, but it's not like shooting ammo with corrosive primers. They leave salts in the bore, and WILL actively eat your bore. The key is to remove ALL petroleum oil from the bore before shooting, then lightly swab the bore with olive oil. If I'm shooting a pitted rifle, I swab it with heavier stuff like bore butter to fill the pits. Otherwise, ANY kind of fouling will accumulate in the pits and cause more pitting. With the olive oil on the steel, and a good lube on the bullets, clean-up is a snap. The Fluid Film will both clean and preserve the bore. In the damp climate that I live in, I've had barrels begin to rust even before I got home from the range after shooting Russian 7.62x39. Yet, several years ago an unexpected emergency caused my Snider to be forgotten for over two weeks after shooting. NO rust at all. (Thank God) You will do more harm if you only partially clean the bore with water, because any leftover fouling will hold moisture and cause rust. I clean at the range now, just to be safe. Interestingly, I had rust form in the barrel of my Webley in just a couple of days after shooting Unique. I had left it and cleaned the BP guns first, because the BP was supposed to be "corrosive". I've seen that happen in shotguns, too. The point is, the corrosive fouling thing has been really overblown, largely by those who want an excuse to avoid black powder. Sadly, they have succeeded in scaring many potential BP shooters off before they even start. I got one fellow shooting his Snider with my help, then he abandoned the project after reading on the internet about how BP would eat his rifle! :( He wouldn't believe me when I showed him how easy it was to clean up. For your brass, don't wait more than a day! Clean it as soon as you get home, by running cold tap water into each case, plugging them with your thumb, and shaking them. Then throw them in the tumbler for a few hours. This results in less staining than soaking them.:)
 
I load my 43 mauser loads with 60gr FFG, large rifle primers and cornmeal filler with a 390gr cast bullet on top. It's a very accurate load in mine. I just pour a kettle of boiling water down the bore from the breech end when I get home and give her a light coat of oil. No corrosion or fouling issues yet...
 
Thank you for the information guys, every little bit helps. My biggest concern with my 71/84 is trying to preserve her as best as I am able. I know the bore will take require alot of care and cleaning when using black powder but I am not overly afraid as I am committed to taking her to the range.

I figured I would bring my cleaning kit with me along with either some nitro solvent or "Gunzilla" and wipe the bore out after five or so rounds just to make sure there isn't a problem while I am at the range, what do you think of this option ?
 
I generally shoot 10-15 rounds between cleaing. Good lube is very important to keep the fouling soft. I'd be tempted to try bushmans wax bullet technique every 10 rounds or so... You'll be suprised though. A quick swab of the bore with a brush or damp patch will keep the majority of the fouling under control while shooting.
 
If you load your ammo with the lube wad, the fouling shouldn't be an issue. I shoot all 20 without cleaning, and the rifling is still completely visible when I'm done. There certainly wouldn't be any harm in swabbing it out every five shots, though. I did some research today, the Jaeger sling swivel would be mounted about 20cm. from the toe of the butt. Anything else would likely be the work of Bubba.
 
Alright, here we are, pictures of the suspect area. Could it be a ding to the stock or could it be all that is left of a possible Jaeger sling mount ?

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I for one would sure love to see the rest of the rifle;):D

The shown mark could indeed be left from a swivel mount being torn out maybe.....hard to say.
 
Possibly, it is so difficult to tell what caused it. Aside from a handling mark on the left side of the pistol grip and some middle band dings near that portion of the stock, the rest of the rifle is immaculate with only worn bluing to worry about. Every part matches, right down to the screws. I was blown away when I found her and even more so when I realized the very good condition of the bore. I hope you all understand my longing to take her to the range after seeing the images.

The only thing missing is the rear sling swivel and screw which I am working on obtaining. Once that is done, I can finally mount this sling I obtained.

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Issued to the 2nd Company of the 10th Grenadier-Regt. König Friedrich Wilhelm II (1.Schlesisches), Ersatz regiment.
(stationed in Schweidnitz) . Attached to the VI Armee Korps. Weapon number 130. This posting puts her about 80km from Posen where my great grandfather was born.

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Just look at how complex the internals are and how this section has not been taken apart in well over a century.

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My apologizes for the mass amount of photos but I feel it would give you all a better picture of her overall condition. I am proud to say that her serial number would most likely place her being manufactured in Spring of 1888, before the Gewehr 88 made an appearance and during the "Year of Three Emperors". This would also have made her Germany's front line infantry weapon during that period until the Gewehr 88 came in six months later. She may also have seen limited service on the Eastern front against the Russians but I'm not sure about this one.
 
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Looks pretty good! Kinda begs to be shot, eh? Mine is one year older, I must post pics of it. It has tiger stripes from butt to nosecap! It, too, was nearly immaculate except for three small notches carved into the left side of the wood. (kills? Shuddder..) If you have a tape handy, maybe you could measure the distance from the toe of the butt to that mystery hole. In centimetres, please! :)
 
Yes, I would love to see some shots of your 71/84 so I can do some comparisons. Is she Spandau made ? Is there a suffix letter attached to the serial ? What is the bore condition ? Overall condition (i.e bluing) ? Do all the parts match ? Does she have the similar "mystery hole" on her butt stock ?

As for the measurement, it came out to ~21cm from the toe of the butt stock to where the hole starts.
 
Smokless loads?

Very nice indeed! I have 2. One is a 2 bander and the other is a 3. I would like to try shooting smokeless in mine some time. I know Dominion loaded smokeless ammo for the 43 and a similar load used for low pressure 47/70 should work...

Steve.
 
I guess I have been more afraid of using smokeless powder than black powder in my 71/84. I am guessing, in theory, that if you were to load a smokeless round to approximately the same amount of pressure to be generated as a black powder round, you would get the same effect ? I'm just worried about the action more than anything else as it wasn't designed with smokeless powder in mind.

I guess when I think about it, I try to stick with what they would have used in the rifle.
 
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