Ghostloaded 935 legal for waterfowl?

Fire306 said:
I'm with stubblejumper, I maybe worded my one post a bit wrong, I would let them touch it if they wanted to check something, but I wouldn't hand it over to them, I would keep control of the firearm.
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The way I read yours and stubblejumpers post is that you would not hand over a gun to a game warden. Of course I wouldn't hand them my gun without them asking, that's as stupid as refusing to hand it to them.

Why would you refuse to hand them your gun? Don't you think you're being ridiculous and inviting confrontation? I can guarantee you'll find yourself in hot water.
 
3 rounds total, plain and simple.

The intent of the law is that there are 3 rounds available to fire.

If in doubt, explain to the local warden what ghost loading is and ask if he would charge you.
 
I just got checked yesterday by the Minden MNR. He followed me into a very remote area that we'd ATV'ed into, I'm surprised he got a truck in to where we were. We were just leaving, so I stopped, took off my helmet and made some small talk. Then I asked him if he wanted to see my license - he did. Pal or hunting? Both, so he got both. Then he asked for my tags which I thought was odd because I had a .410. In any event, I had about every tag one could think of on me, deer, bear, moose, migratory bird. Showed him them all, he checked them all.

Then he asked to see the gun. I'm going to argue the point of law and be a #### in the bush? The guy's not overstepping his bounds, he's looking after my best interests by keeping the yahoo's in line. So hey, here's the gun, have a look - I handed it over without question. It was fully encased and trigger locked and unloaded, so that was the end of it. I thanked him for his time and moved on.

I know what he was going for - loaded firearm on the back of an ATV. THere's enough of that goes on so fair enough - those guys should get a ticket if they get caught.

I might push back if the MNR was overstepping their bounds, but I don't think they are. I think there's enough nonsense goes on and not enough guys to enforce, so whatever. I got my tags, I'm legal, have a look and move on.
 
waterwheel said:
I just got checked yesterday by the Minden MNR. He followed me into a very remote area that we'd ATV'ed into, I'm surprised he got a truck in to where we were. We were just leaving, so I stopped, took off my helmet and made some small talk. Then I asked him if he wanted to see my license - he did. Pal or hunting? Both, so he got both. Then he asked for my tags which I thought was odd because I had a .410. In any event, I had about every tag one could think of on me, deer, bear, moose, migratory bird. Showed him them all, he checked them all.

Then he asked to see the gun. I'm going to argue the point of law and be a #### in the bush? The guy's not overstepping his bounds, he's looking after my best interests by keeping the yahoo's in line. So hey, here's the gun, have a look - I handed it over without question. It was fully encased and trigger locked and unloaded, so that was the end of it. I thanked him for his time and moved on.

I know what he was going for - loaded firearm on the back of an ATV. THere's enough of that goes on so fair enough - those guys should get a ticket if they get caught.

I might push back if the MNR was overstepping their bounds, but I don't think they are. I think there's enough nonsense goes on and not enough guys to enforce, so whatever. I got my tags, I'm legal, have a look and move on.
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I'm not saying be a #### to the CO's, in no way shape or form. I think they have a job to do and like you I believe they should be out there catching the poachers and lawbreakers. I always have my credentials and am within the laws everytime I've been checked, so really there would be no reason to hand over my firearm. In the scenario you described, you were kind, courteous and we're doing no wrong, I would be willing to bet that your day would end no different if when he asked to "see" your firearm, you could have safely removed it from its case and proved it to be unloaded and safe with out handing it over to him. There would have been no controversy or questions asked.
That's what I'm trying to say, you don't have to give it to them to show them.
 
Law is pretty clear! 3 rounds period one of which includes the chamber being loaded and it is your responsibility, not the manufacturers to ensure your gun's magazine is altered( read PLUGGED) to a capacity of 2 rounds. Most CO's carry a rubber tube that is inserted in the mag with colour coded lines for capacity marks. If they put it in your mag and it passé further up past that mark you're charged!!
 
Fire306 said:
You don't give your firearm to anyone you do not have proof of having a PAL
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Sorry, but there is no requirement to have a PAL to handle a firearm. So long as you are under the supervision of the PAL holder, then you can handle a firearm with no PAL. Otherwise, how would little Johnny go plinking pop cans with Grandpa? Sorry Johnny, you don't have a PAL yet? Not quite.
 
Fire306 said:
The whole ghost loading thing is a good way to get yourself into trouble with the CO's. But when it comes to part of your post here, never, never give you shotgun to a CO officer, and he won't be able to ghost load it. You don't give your firearm to anyone you do not have proof of having a PAL, therefore if a CO wants to see your firearm, you show it to him/her, don't ever hand it to them. There is a world of opportunity if you hand it to them, that you may not get it back. If they ask you to show them how many the magazine will hold, put two in it, and attempt the third, if you are legal, the third won't go in. End of discussion. Forget ghost loading.
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bearkilr said:
The fact they carry a handgun may actually indicate they have a PAL. I've never heard anything as absurd as not handing a firearm to a peace officer when asked. I've been asked several times by RCMP and DNR to see my firearm. Standard protocol.



Sorry bud, I'm not picking on you, but that's a ludicrous statement. You'd refuse to hand it to them and then you actually recommend loading the gun in front of them to show how many it holds? See you in jail.

They really don't want you handling firearms in their presence, for safety purposes, hence the reason they ask to see it.
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CO's and police officers do not require a PAL to carry out their duties as they are employees of the crown. Be polite, hand it over if asked, don't be a #### and you should be just fine. :)
 
By the third shot the birds are already the heck outta there and most of the times its a hail marry. The fourth would just be a waste in most cases.

If you want to load three and put one on the lifter and then plead not guilty to the charge laid go for it, you'll look real smart in court trying to argue the wording. Not many judges lack that amount of common sense. OR you don't have to waste a day in court and can go out duck hunting with all that free time you must have. You can also buy yourself a CASE of shells and a couple or more dozen decoys for the cost of not working for the day.
 
Ghost loading a 4th is an invitation to trouble, esp in flatlands. Gunshots carry a long distance and it is very easy to tell if someone is running unplugged/overcapacity!
 
as far s i was aware. the general test for if it holds the right amount, is a wood dowel with lines on it. they stuff it in the mag tube and look how far it goes in, if it hits the 3 shells mark you just lost. even using 3.5" shells you shouldn't be able to fit more than 2 2 3/4 shells in the tube. needs less than .25" of a gap in front of the last 3.5" to make it easy to load and reliable. and it still wont hold 3 2.75".

Don't mention ghost loading to the CO and you will be fine. like any other government official be it police or other, don't offer any further information than requested. do you mention to a police officer that pulls you over for a ride check you dont say "yeah dont watch me when i go i might have a tail light out."
 
Fire306 said:
I'm not saying be a #### to the CO's, in no way shape or form. I think they have a job to do and like you I believe they should be out there catching the poachers and lawbreakers. I always have my credentials and am within the laws everytime I've been checked, so really there would be no reason to hand over my firearm. In the scenario you described, you were kind, courteous and we're doing no wrong, I would be willing to bet that your day would end no different if when he asked to "see" your firearm, you could have safely removed it from its case and proved it to be unloaded and safe with out handing it over to him. There would have been no controversy or questions asked.
That's what I'm trying to say, you don't have to give it to them to show them.
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Interesting. I wonder what the regs say, whether handing over the firearm is a requirement or not.

I guess it's like when I used to bounce at a university bar. Students stole everything that wasn't nailed down so we'd ask to see in their bags as they left. If they showed you, you could search. If they didn't, you where basically screwed.
 
the spank said:
I was quite certain a friend of mine who is an undercover OPP told me they are required to hold a valid PAL as well?!
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Yep, incorrect. Neighbour of mine is a cop, doesn't have a pal. He openly admitted that cops are the worst ones for knowing gun regs. Someone on the board here indicated that they keep a hardcopy of the regs with their gun cases - that's a good idea.
 
The old Browning A5 can load a shell faster than you can blink. On one occassion I have been able to get a 4th shot loaded and fired at the same flock of ducks that stalled over the decoys. Got a triple out of that, albeit with four shells. If I had held a shell in between the fingers of my left hand, I could have easily fired four shots that sounded like they were all loaded in the gun. They only thing they can prove is what your magazine capacity holds. Anything beyond that is speculation.
 
Grouse Man said:
The old Browning A5 can load a shell faster than you can blink. On one occassion I have been able to get a 4th shot loaded and fired at the same flock of ducks that stalled over the decoys. Got a triple out of that, albeit with four shells. If I had held a shell in between the fingers of my left hand, I could have easily fired four shots that sounded like they were all loaded in the gun. They only thing they can prove is what your magazine capacity holds. Anything beyond that is speculation.
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I hunt sea ducks with my father -in-law. He gets 4 shots off and it sounds like you described. He uses an Auto-5.
 
I'd rather not be the guy that produces 4 shells in my hand when asked to unload my shotgun by the CO. I'd rather be hunting ducks than having a "chat'/ explaining the rules with a CO, no matter if I am right or wrong...
 
Fire306 said:
I've been check several times over the years, never once asked me to hand over my firearm. They ask to see it, see that its unloaded etc. I do the actions for them, never let them touch it.
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They can observe a gun to see if it is loaded, with you holding it.

Pretty tough to check the mag capacity of a shotgun with you holding it though.

CO and police all have the exact same authority.
 
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