GIGN ditches HK416 for CZ Bren 2 in 7.62x39!

[mikethebike]

What do call 100k men with their hand up?

do you know why?

7 out of 10 French who crawled in the trenches of ww1 never came back out alive, representing 4.39% of their total population thats why! Given that only men died and only mostly men worked that accounts to losing 10% of your entire national productivity for at minimum 18 years! Not to mention northern France had the most industry and was the most devastated.

They bled enough at their first circus, the second circus 20 years later they had enough, consider it next time you laugh at the french army.

No other country except romania and serbia in the Entente and the Ittoman empire in the Central, bled more in percentage of their total population than France.

 

[angrysoldier]

I've done Penn Dems here in Gagetown. You would be shocked how "weak" some armour is against certain rounds.

 

[Agent Law]

What do call 100k men with their hand up?

Ooo. Ooo. I know this one. It's called a lowbrow joke.

 

[DUG99]

What do call 100k men with their hand up?

The French soldier fought bravely and well defending France during the initial invasion in WWII, they took over 200 000 casualties defending and over 200 000 KIA by war's end. The Maginot line held but they were not prepared for blitzkrieg, and they were routed. It was not the French soldiers failings, it was the French leadership and weak politicians that lead to defeat and quick capitulation. Sadly France and Europe's ruling classes are showing the same weaknesses today and will lead to nothing good in the near future.

Being fictitious, maybe going 7.62x39 is a way of saying they are switching sides.....!

The CZ is not even in the same league as the HK 416. Kind of like trading in a Porsche 911 for Škoda Kodiaq.

 

[ShawnC6]

Strange choice given the reasons.

 

[bettieguitar]

This has to come as a major disappointment. The poor buggers thought that they were getting a nice new HK and then BLAM "sorry we changed our mind and decided on this clunker." HK...NO Compromise!

 

[greentips]

I will believe it when the contract is actually being delivered and the weapons are actually in use ( not put away in the arms room).

The reasons of "lack of stopping power" and "armour penetration" do not really drive with ditching 5.56.

They basically want a 300 Blk out/ 300 whisper, judging by the 10" bbl choice. I predict this gonna die and will be quietly returned in a 300 blk out / 300 whisper format.

There aren't too many 7.62X39 western weapons, other than AR160 ( which is a total dog IMHO) and SIG 553R. Right now they are going from driving a sports car to running an clunky econoline.

 

[Mr_Mike]

Every once in a while you'll even see a pic of a GIGN operator with an AK, Galil, or even a Saiga 12.

it's probably a counterstrike screenshot.

 

[Harry Potter]

An order for 68 rifles is hardly a sign that the GIGN is "ditching" the HK416. I bet they buy strange guns all the time, for all sorts of reasons.

 

[r_taylor]

Apparently the French missed the memo...

5.56mm M995 Armor Piercing ammunition
18 mm armor steel 300 HB
Target distance 100 m

 

[ADK]

Ooo. Ooo. I know this one. It's called a lowbrow joke.

You missed the other idiot in this thread. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[870P]

Apparently the French missed the memo...

5.56mm M995 Armor Piercing ammunition
18 mm armor steel 300 HB
Target distance 100 m

It apparently has very poor terminal effectiveness, and may not be particularly good against complex barriers either.

 

[870P]

Looks like a nice enough setup.

 

[enefgee]

Bigger bullets, probably for barriers like plaster walls, x39 will do better through an interior wall than a lighter, faster bullet like 556. GIGN is pretty good at unconventional choices.

 

[Scarecrow]

Finland is still using the caliber so whats the big deal? It's the original 300 blackout so why change to blackout? Most terrorist aren't wearing armor plates anyways, the vest they wear tends to be explosive. Plus don't forget the deniability if anyone checks who shot who and your both shooting the same caliber.
HK loses another contract with there overweight antique rifle, who would have thought?

 

[bongoz]

Finland is still using the caliber so whats the big deal? It's the original 300 blackout so why change to blackout? Most terrorist aren't wearing armor plates anyways, the vest they wear tends to be explosive. Plus don't forget the deniability if anyone checks who shot who and your both shooting the same caliber.
HK loses another contract with there overweight antique rifle, who would have thought?

Both rifles are 3kg...

The Hk416 isn't that heavy for a piston AR. You might be thinking about the civilian models with the thicker profiled barrels.

 

[Scarecrow]

Isn't that heavy? Maybe, I just find HK so backwards for a German company that seemed so groundbreaking back in the day with there twist on an old idea.

Did you know the original delayed blowback rifle defeated the piston driven system back in 1945 in Germany because it was easier to make with less parts... and now HK goes around selling the competitions gun while everyone has perfected there "G36" style plastic rifle.

Won't be long until the competition figures out the advantages of "space age" delayed blowback and matches it to aluminum and plastic and blows HK out of the water with a slightly less antiquated design.

 

[shoota]

Interested in the mags, might be a good replacement for the crappy ASC mags for the XCR.

 

[greentips]

GIGN is like the FBI HRT, they are not really the people that get deployed outside for black or army green ops, so these "ammo picking" and "deniability" do not drive. They got sent outside of France probably when there is a justification to use "cops" instead of "soldiers".

The only real reason to use a 30 cal bullet is for suppression with subsonic ammo. Even that is odd they go with 7.62X39 instead of 300 whisper/blk , that RUAG has the ammo available for a long time.

The only explanation is the requirements were laid out couple year ago, and no one in Europe actually had any 300 blk / 300 whisper assault rifles available until very recently. Both HK and B&T did not show case their 300 Blk/whisper guns until this year. Rolling back to 2014/15ish, the only choice in Europe will be Beretta and CZ. They are the only few people who have prepared to make 7.62X39 guns for international market ( Egypt and india..those place). Even if they go outside of Europe, IWI modernized Galil is the only western acceptable choice.

Europe did not catch on 300blk / 300 whisper assault rifles until like, just now. These 70 ish rifles will soon be forgotten, and in 5 years they will be buying something else because no one uses 7.62X39, and the supply will become a PITA if you are the only people in town using some odd ball stuff.

 

[shredder]

GIGN probably has some oddball rifles (obviously VERY task specific) in every armoury in France.

68 rifles is probably enough to have 7-8 in every armoury, but I'd be surprised indeed if the new CZ ever saw use outside training.

I suppose it's possible these are trials rifles, but I just can't see a SWAT team like GIGN using an ancient (relatively speaking ) round in a spanking new rifle for general issue.