Glock Abuse!!!! (funny)
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John Sukey said:All I can say to Mr glock abuser is that I wish I had his kind of money to be able to screw up a gun like that. I fail to see his point. Maybe if he parted his hair.......
Well said! In my opinion, this also answers the: Where is the Beretta Abuse Link?
It's non existant because Beretta owners have more sense than that...
I love it , I know I like my G21 but I ain't doing to do that .
Thats one heck of an endorsement of Glocks in general but the shooting it with a 22 thing is a bit stupid really , whats the point ? As for the rest of it though , pretty entertaining .
Thats one heck of an endorsement of Glocks in general but the shooting it with a 22 thing is a bit stupid really , whats the point ? As for the rest of it though , pretty entertaining .
well seeing as how the INS did the most extensive testing ever done on a pistol, ever, and the Glock failed to make it through, but Beretta did, as did Sig, I fail to see how some non-scientific bozo tests mean anything, wow you froze your gun. Wow did anyone ever think that that test is actually pointless and that any gun out there can do the same thing? oh and I just got some apple Koolaid in, apparently it hides the taste better.
Pure Energy
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Slavex said:
Whats with the Kool-aid? Suicide cult thing or what?
Anyway, didnt the Glock fail the US military testing and Beretta got the contract?
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" I fail to see how some non scientific bozo tests mean anything, wow you froze your gun." Sounds to me like someone else here is a Kool-aid drinker?? Did you fail to read the whole thread, including all the testing? I agree shooting it with a 22 was kind of pointless but non the less it proved the point about its durability. Seeing as how a guy with video documentation of his testing is rendered moot. I'd say everything ever discussed on this board, including the Pro Beretta talk would fall into the same category. Without official scientific proof a persons opinion or testing results hold no merit. What would an average Canadian citizen know about firearms, tactics, metallugy, ergonomics, physical and psychological stress, instructing, reloading, precision shooting, gunsmithing, hunting, coaching, competing, cleaning, buying, or selling of a firearm.... By Slavex's educated opinion on the Glock guy's torture test, we all must be stupid people who have nothing of value to contribute... I'll stop talking now, my opinion is not scientific and therefore not valid. Not to mention "I AM" the "Glock" kool-aid drinker....................
CF
CF
An old letter to Jeff Cooper (not mine)
Dear Colonel
After reading the most recent Sound Off, I felt compelled to write of my experiences with the Berretta pistol.
I am a Police Officer in a large Municipality in Canada and have been for 17 years. In 1993 all of the departments in my Province transitioned from revolvers to one of four pistols. The choices were the usual suspects, Berretta, Sig, S&W and Glock; all in DA and all in .40 cal. At the time there was a very strong push for 9mm. There was an equally strong effort to adopt a .45 cal weapon as well. A compromise was met and we ended up in the middle. Initially we were using ball ammunition that proved ineffective. However we managed to lobby for hollow point rounds and since then all has been well in the world of Police ballistics. You rarely read of suspects surviving Police shootings any more, it used to be a forgone conclusion with the old .38's.
My department adopted the Glock with little or no competition due to it's long standing with or SWAT people. I was a little dubious of this at first and my heart still wished for something with a juice-can bullet and made of steel, however, I kept an open mind. Anything would be better than my 1953 vintage S&W .38 with truncated cone target ammunition. It was not long before I became a strong believer, but I still wondered if there was something better out there.
I soon found I had the opportunity to answer this question when I was seconded to our Police College as a firearms instructor. I was required to become proficient in all four of the weapons that the students might someday carry. To accomplish this I had a range to myself and a key to the ammunition locker. I fired sufficient rounds through each weapon to become intimate with it. I spent three years teaching there and had a few observations.
Firstly, a weapon should be fit to the man, not the other way around. I had many a recruit who had difficulty holding the weapon issued to them. The Berretta was particularly bad. In fact I only had one recruit who was the correct size for this weapon. He was seven foot six and could pick up a basketball with two fingers. It was a hopeless task to try and get some of our smaller stature Officers to shoot well with the Berretta. A single action version would have only been slightly better, it was the width of the grip that caused the problem. The Sig and Smith had similar issues. I never found a person too large or too small to fire the Glock well.
Secondly, a weapon should be reliable. We had a store of weapons that were used by the recruits since they are not issued a weapon until they graduate. These handguns saw extreme use, firing in excess of one thousand rounds per recruit per course. This could amount to twenty thousand every three months. We wore them out with great abandon. With this type of use you can't help but notice trends. The Sig's trigger and recoil springs would break with annoying regularity. The Smith's rear sight would pop off which meant the hammer safety spring would launch. The Smith also had a weak magazine safety. When the fully loaded magazine was slammed home, as in a high stress event, the safety would break. Either of these things stopped the weapon from functioning. They were all replaced on a yearly basis, except the Glock's. They could stand in excess of one hundred and fifty thousand rounds with no sign of distress.
The Berretta was a story unto itself. On a daily basis we would lose a recoil lug. We would regularly have blown chambers (invariably blamed on bad ammunition, which surprisingly never happened to any of the others). Trigger springs broke often and we lost quite a few takedown lever studs and springs. This little beauty would fly out, never to be found, and on the next round fired, the takedown lever would fall down and the entire top-side would be launched down range. Imagine trying to build confidence in a new shooter when the top half of their weapon is sticking out of the ground like a grave marker? Another major weakness were the magazines. The spring is under such great compression and the butt plate is held on with a very weak detent and when combined it would routinely launch it's contents onto the ground. Much like the rookie holding the now defunct weapon did with his lunch during a high stress exercise.
I attended an MP5 instructor's course and was the only Glock amongst Smith's and Beretta's. One of the Berretta users regularly oiled his weapon using no less than three different types of lube for various areas. He had a stoppage on every live fire exercise and was getting frustrated when he asked the instructor why I never seemed to have to clear my weapon when all of the others were getting so much practice at it. The instructor answered in his mid western accent "Because, he has a Glock son."
Thirdly a weapon must be easily serviced in the field. All of these weapons, except of course the Glock, have far too many pieces to be field worthy. Have you ever tried to fit a Smith ejector rod assembly with cold hands? The Berretta is actually quite easy to strip, maybe too easy. In recent years the slide has been removed from Officer's handguns by suspects who have trained in this little trick. It does work and no you won't get a shot off before he has your slide. Another of the many annoyances of the Berretta are it's sharp edges. We kept a box of bandages handy for the unfortunates who were routinely bitten.
The only thing that Berretta has is the sales people. They swept down on our departments like a tide of locusts. They brought trinkets and expense accounts and hit the poor unsuspecting armorers hard. Many appear to have been bitten by the bug. Ten years later, many are regretting it. Their fancy high priced pistols are now in need of replacement.
The above issues are enough to negate the Berretta as a suitable side arm. The fact that the military are forced to use ball ammo is another, 9mm ball just doesn't work. The .45 is the obvious choice since it has a long-standing record. I don't, however, believe that the Colt platform is the way to go anymore. I may sound like a billboard for the Glock but I come by it honestly. The Glock 20 is cheaper, more reliable, easier to handle and tote, has more capacity and is infinitely more field serviceable than any other sidearm. I guess the main issue is to do away with the M9 altogether and worry about it's replacement later. I feel for the soldier in battle, I wouldn't have any confidence in an M9.
Sorry for the length of my letter, but I feel strongly about this issue. These charlatans have been foisting this poorly designed and overly complex pistol on us for years and it is costing lives. It's time for this to stop. When is the grunt going to be given the choice of which device he will defend himself and his country with? I, personally, would like to know who benefited from the US Army contract for the M9. I wonder if they can sleep at night?
Yours,
Dan Taylor
Dear Colonel
After reading the most recent Sound Off, I felt compelled to write of my experiences with the Berretta pistol.
I am a Police Officer in a large Municipality in Canada and have been for 17 years. In 1993 all of the departments in my Province transitioned from revolvers to one of four pistols. The choices were the usual suspects, Berretta, Sig, S&W and Glock; all in DA and all in .40 cal. At the time there was a very strong push for 9mm. There was an equally strong effort to adopt a .45 cal weapon as well. A compromise was met and we ended up in the middle. Initially we were using ball ammunition that proved ineffective. However we managed to lobby for hollow point rounds and since then all has been well in the world of Police ballistics. You rarely read of suspects surviving Police shootings any more, it used to be a forgone conclusion with the old .38's.
My department adopted the Glock with little or no competition due to it's long standing with or SWAT people. I was a little dubious of this at first and my heart still wished for something with a juice-can bullet and made of steel, however, I kept an open mind. Anything would be better than my 1953 vintage S&W .38 with truncated cone target ammunition. It was not long before I became a strong believer, but I still wondered if there was something better out there.
I soon found I had the opportunity to answer this question when I was seconded to our Police College as a firearms instructor. I was required to become proficient in all four of the weapons that the students might someday carry. To accomplish this I had a range to myself and a key to the ammunition locker. I fired sufficient rounds through each weapon to become intimate with it. I spent three years teaching there and had a few observations.
Firstly, a weapon should be fit to the man, not the other way around. I had many a recruit who had difficulty holding the weapon issued to them. The Berretta was particularly bad. In fact I only had one recruit who was the correct size for this weapon. He was seven foot six and could pick up a basketball with two fingers. It was a hopeless task to try and get some of our smaller stature Officers to shoot well with the Berretta. A single action version would have only been slightly better, it was the width of the grip that caused the problem. The Sig and Smith had similar issues. I never found a person too large or too small to fire the Glock well.
Secondly, a weapon should be reliable. We had a store of weapons that were used by the recruits since they are not issued a weapon until they graduate. These handguns saw extreme use, firing in excess of one thousand rounds per recruit per course. This could amount to twenty thousand every three months. We wore them out with great abandon. With this type of use you can't help but notice trends. The Sig's trigger and recoil springs would break with annoying regularity. The Smith's rear sight would pop off which meant the hammer safety spring would launch. The Smith also had a weak magazine safety. When the fully loaded magazine was slammed home, as in a high stress event, the safety would break. Either of these things stopped the weapon from functioning. They were all replaced on a yearly basis, except the Glock's. They could stand in excess of one hundred and fifty thousand rounds with no sign of distress.
The Berretta was a story unto itself. On a daily basis we would lose a recoil lug. We would regularly have blown chambers (invariably blamed on bad ammunition, which surprisingly never happened to any of the others). Trigger springs broke often and we lost quite a few takedown lever studs and springs. This little beauty would fly out, never to be found, and on the next round fired, the takedown lever would fall down and the entire top-side would be launched down range. Imagine trying to build confidence in a new shooter when the top half of their weapon is sticking out of the ground like a grave marker? Another major weakness were the magazines. The spring is under such great compression and the butt plate is held on with a very weak detent and when combined it would routinely launch it's contents onto the ground. Much like the rookie holding the now defunct weapon did with his lunch during a high stress exercise.
I attended an MP5 instructor's course and was the only Glock amongst Smith's and Beretta's. One of the Berretta users regularly oiled his weapon using no less than three different types of lube for various areas. He had a stoppage on every live fire exercise and was getting frustrated when he asked the instructor why I never seemed to have to clear my weapon when all of the others were getting so much practice at it. The instructor answered in his mid western accent "Because, he has a Glock son."
Thirdly a weapon must be easily serviced in the field. All of these weapons, except of course the Glock, have far too many pieces to be field worthy. Have you ever tried to fit a Smith ejector rod assembly with cold hands? The Berretta is actually quite easy to strip, maybe too easy. In recent years the slide has been removed from Officer's handguns by suspects who have trained in this little trick. It does work and no you won't get a shot off before he has your slide. Another of the many annoyances of the Berretta are it's sharp edges. We kept a box of bandages handy for the unfortunates who were routinely bitten.
The only thing that Berretta has is the sales people. They swept down on our departments like a tide of locusts. They brought trinkets and expense accounts and hit the poor unsuspecting armorers hard. Many appear to have been bitten by the bug. Ten years later, many are regretting it. Their fancy high priced pistols are now in need of replacement.
The above issues are enough to negate the Berretta as a suitable side arm. The fact that the military are forced to use ball ammo is another, 9mm ball just doesn't work. The .45 is the obvious choice since it has a long-standing record. I don't, however, believe that the Colt platform is the way to go anymore. I may sound like a billboard for the Glock but I come by it honestly. The Glock 20 is cheaper, more reliable, easier to handle and tote, has more capacity and is infinitely more field serviceable than any other sidearm. I guess the main issue is to do away with the M9 altogether and worry about it's replacement later. I feel for the soldier in battle, I wouldn't have any confidence in an M9.
Sorry for the length of my letter, but I feel strongly about this issue. These charlatans have been foisting this poorly designed and overly complex pistol on us for years and it is costing lives. It's time for this to stop. When is the grunt going to be given the choice of which device he will defend himself and his country with? I, personally, would like to know who benefited from the US Army contract for the M9. I wonder if they can sleep at night?
Yours,
Dan Taylor
oh sorry I just happen to think that if you are going to espouse the virtues and values of a gun you should actually have some scientific data to back it up. Some guy throwing his gun in mud etc isn't a laboratory, nor is it a controlled experiment. I could sit down with a video and make my Walther PPK look like the best gun in the world.
once again I'll simply state, there is no wonder gun, there is the gun that works best for you.
now read the following article from Gun World Magazine, November 2000. what amazes me is that it's based on the 96D Brig, which even I say is the red headed stepchild of the Beretta line (being a .40 S&W).
once again I'll simply state, there is no wonder gun, there is the gun that works best for you.
now read the following article from Gun World Magazine, November 2000. what amazes me is that it's based on the 96D Brig, which even I say is the red headed stepchild of the Beretta line (being a .40 S&W).
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- In the clock tower!!
I have experience with almost all of the pistols mentioned here. Most extensively the Smith 5946, 9mm, and Glock. I will agree that the Smith has its own set of issues to which the user, maintainer will be faced with. The interseting things I have noticed outside of the usual reliability issues from gun to gun is that changing to a more ergonimic style pistol such as the Glock or HK USP my group immediately gets a little tighter as does most who get the chance to try several pistols back to back. This is universal with both new and experienced shooters. The Glock seems to fit a group better than the Berreta and Smith. Both are not well suited for the smaller hand. The other issue was the DA only feature. 10 lbs trigger pull causes people a lot of problems and new shooters always have issues with grouping for a while. Again, switch to a gun with lower trigger pull and voila! Great groups.
Long and short is that some of us are stuck with what we get issued.
Long and short is that some of us are stuck with what we get issued.
Slavex, the article does not reveal the other competitors in the test (due to 'procurement law') so what can we really conclude from it? Given the post by ATR, I'd be very interested to see if a Glock was also tested.
I must say that the letter ATR posted is quite interesting and its claims concern me more than the freezing and grit tests (although I can appreciate there are some who might find function under these circumstances essential) as a gun which is more prone to servicing and needs constant maintenance is less than desirable in my view. That 'grab the slide and disassemble' trick supposedly employed by perps might be a bit disconcerting too, to law enforcement users .... it would take a bit of nerve to try it though!
Now, I write all this as someone who is actively considering the purchase of a Beretta handgun for sporting purposes, as a companion gun for my Beretta Storm. I like the idea of carrying only one type of magazine, but if the gun becomes that unreliable with use, I have to question how good a purchase it would be.
I do appreciate the posted letter is anecdotal and non scientific in nature, but the points made in it are troubling. I understand that you have used a Beretta for some time in competition ... have you (or anyone else with extensive experience with Beretta handguns) suffered any of the problems claimed by the author of the letter?
I must say that the letter ATR posted is quite interesting and its claims concern me more than the freezing and grit tests (although I can appreciate there are some who might find function under these circumstances essential) as a gun which is more prone to servicing and needs constant maintenance is less than desirable in my view. That 'grab the slide and disassemble' trick supposedly employed by perps might be a bit disconcerting too, to law enforcement users .... it would take a bit of nerve to try it though!
Now, I write all this as someone who is actively considering the purchase of a Beretta handgun for sporting purposes, as a companion gun for my Beretta Storm. I like the idea of carrying only one type of magazine, but if the gun becomes that unreliable with use, I have to question how good a purchase it would be.
I do appreciate the posted letter is anecdotal and non scientific in nature, but the points made in it are troubling. I understand that you have used a Beretta for some time in competition ... have you (or anyone else with extensive experience with Beretta handguns) suffered any of the problems claimed by the author of the letter?
the author is talking about .40 S&W's which are pieces of #### in my view, the Beretta platform should never have been switched to 40's. However I have one, very old 96 (.40 S&W) that has 165,000 rounds through it. I just replaced the locking block at 162,530 rounds. It's on it's 3rd recoil spring. that's it. But I have a newer 96G Elite II that is on it's way back to the USA since it fell apart.
When it comes to 9mm, which is what the Beretta was designed for, there is simply no other gun out there that has been tested and abused as much as Beretta. The letter from Dan Taylor has a few truths in it, but not much, it's typical of fanatical Glock owners. I've seen more problems on my range with Glocks than any other gun. Talk to Redleg at TSE and he'll say that he's seen them from Beretta, Glock, S&W, but not Sig. Talk to the owners of shops in Florida and you'll hear how Beretta's never fail, but Glocks, Sig's, HK's do. There is no perfect gun, it's as simple as that.
And there has never, ever, ever been a slide removed by anyone during a confrontation. I attended a seminar years ago where the instructor was telling people this. I and 4 other students safed our weapons, removed all live rounds from the room, and asked him to remove our slides. Each and every time we pulled the trigger multiple times while he was trying to remove the slides from the gun. It is, always has been, and always will be, complete bull####. Had it ever happened, it would have been huge news and you would have seen Beretta go out of business. Jet Li doing it in a movie does not make it real. Watch the clip in slow mo, you can see the disassembly latch is in the down position before he even grabs the gun.
Now you are correct that the page above doesn't reveal much from the INS test. But we have seen some of the documentation that the INS released, it was a result of the INS testing that caused Glock to first lengthen, and then back that off slightly, the slide rails on Glock pistols, as each and every Glock that was tested in the "frisbee" test had the slide separate from the frame. During the drop tests 2 Glocks also fired the primed case. They were the only guns to fire the case during the drop test. The reasons for firing are thought to be the same as the round that went off into the Calgary cops leg. a broken pin that allowed the crucifix (I think that is the correct term) to slide down and out of the way of the striker, allowing the striker to fall forward with enough force to fire.
Last night at S&D night I had my second ever fail to extract with my gun, although it did extract, the meat of my hand getting caught up in the slide, during firing, is what caused the jam, same as the first one I had. and I have the scars to prove it. My pistol is now sitting at 24,000 rounds + or - 1,000 with no cleaning. I've lubed it twice during that time. This is typical of how I treat my competition guns. I wait until I can watch the slide move before I'll actually clean it.
Now problems I've personally witnessed with Glocks, factory ammo KB's. one destroyed the gun, two were reloads, and all three times the shooters were hurt significantly. I've been on other ranges with KB's but wasn't standing beside the shooter. I've seen numerous broken trigger pins, and to be honest only a few of them prevented the gun from firing, the others weren't discovered until the gun was taken apart, this has been in 9mm and .40's. I've seen the disassembly latch fall out. I've seen the safety on the trigger not work, I've seen it fall out, pins that hold in the other components fall out, break and shear off. Mags that won't stay seated, mags that won't come out, sights that break off (very common with the plastic adjustable sights).
I personally like the Glock as a pistol, but the Beretta fits my hand better, as does a Sig.
When it comes to 9mm, which is what the Beretta was designed for, there is simply no other gun out there that has been tested and abused as much as Beretta. The letter from Dan Taylor has a few truths in it, but not much, it's typical of fanatical Glock owners. I've seen more problems on my range with Glocks than any other gun. Talk to Redleg at TSE and he'll say that he's seen them from Beretta, Glock, S&W, but not Sig. Talk to the owners of shops in Florida and you'll hear how Beretta's never fail, but Glocks, Sig's, HK's do. There is no perfect gun, it's as simple as that.
And there has never, ever, ever been a slide removed by anyone during a confrontation. I attended a seminar years ago where the instructor was telling people this. I and 4 other students safed our weapons, removed all live rounds from the room, and asked him to remove our slides. Each and every time we pulled the trigger multiple times while he was trying to remove the slides from the gun. It is, always has been, and always will be, complete bull####. Had it ever happened, it would have been huge news and you would have seen Beretta go out of business. Jet Li doing it in a movie does not make it real. Watch the clip in slow mo, you can see the disassembly latch is in the down position before he even grabs the gun.
Now you are correct that the page above doesn't reveal much from the INS test. But we have seen some of the documentation that the INS released, it was a result of the INS testing that caused Glock to first lengthen, and then back that off slightly, the slide rails on Glock pistols, as each and every Glock that was tested in the "frisbee" test had the slide separate from the frame. During the drop tests 2 Glocks also fired the primed case. They were the only guns to fire the case during the drop test. The reasons for firing are thought to be the same as the round that went off into the Calgary cops leg. a broken pin that allowed the crucifix (I think that is the correct term) to slide down and out of the way of the striker, allowing the striker to fall forward with enough force to fire.
Last night at S&D night I had my second ever fail to extract with my gun, although it did extract, the meat of my hand getting caught up in the slide, during firing, is what caused the jam, same as the first one I had. and I have the scars to prove it. My pistol is now sitting at 24,000 rounds + or - 1,000 with no cleaning. I've lubed it twice during that time. This is typical of how I treat my competition guns. I wait until I can watch the slide move before I'll actually clean it.
Now problems I've personally witnessed with Glocks, factory ammo KB's. one destroyed the gun, two were reloads, and all three times the shooters were hurt significantly. I've been on other ranges with KB's but wasn't standing beside the shooter. I've seen numerous broken trigger pins, and to be honest only a few of them prevented the gun from firing, the others weren't discovered until the gun was taken apart, this has been in 9mm and .40's. I've seen the disassembly latch fall out. I've seen the safety on the trigger not work, I've seen it fall out, pins that hold in the other components fall out, break and shear off. Mags that won't stay seated, mags that won't come out, sights that break off (very common with the plastic adjustable sights).
I personally like the Glock as a pistol, but the Beretta fits my hand better, as does a Sig.
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- Alberta land of many guns
The letter from Dan may have a few truths as well as a few falacies. Do you think the article in Gun World magazine is 100% truthful? They call them rag sheets for a reason. I agree that having your slide stripped from your Beretta or any other gun is complete horse poop!
When you discuss the "pin" failing and allowing the Glock to fire as was the supposed case in Calgary, what pin are you talking about? Should anyone on this board further investigate the complete operation of the Glock safe action system you would know that it is physically impossible for a Glock to go off unless SOMETHING(finger, stick, whatever) pulls the trigger. Having a rail separation will not allow the firing pin to strike the primer. The firing pin block is still in place preventing this. having the cricuble sear falling down its track and allowing the firing pin to strike the primer(this is how your Glock operates) is impossible due to the fact that the trigger must be pulled thus moving the crucible sear rearward in its track to the point where it is then permitted to drop down far enough to allow the firing pin to travel forward under sping tension which was created when pulling the trigger to strike the primer. Don't forget that the trigger bar is also disengaging the firing pin block while you pull the trigger. Having thrown the gun and having significant force upon impact would still not allow the sear to release the firing pin. The safety in the trigger is spring loaded to remain in a forward or safe position, furthermore the firing pin is not under enough spring tension to discharge a round until it is fully compressed via pulling the trigger which disengages all safetys on(in) the gun.
Being unscientific in your experiences at your local range Slavex. I have a hard time believing that you saw the trigger safety fall out of a Glock. The pin that holds the trigger safety "tab" if you will is pressed in and from the left side of the trigger (when holding it). The pin cannot be removed by the user. As for the factory ammo KB's. That's an ammo problem, not a gun problem. Yes the Glock has an unsupported chamber but so does every other pistol. The Glock's have a slightly less unsupported chamber that facilitates the use and consumption of almost all ammo. Reloads are always in question, could have been multiple factors. Most makers do not permit reloads(if you want to keep your warranty) through their guns.
Again, What are these broken trigger pins? Aer you talking about the trigger pin that holds the trigger in the frame? That is a pretty beefy pin to be breaking. I see negligence from the user being of concern. remember disassembling your Glock further than field stripping I.E. pushing out pins voids warranty and should only be done by an approved Glock armourer.
Seeing as how your take down latch is held in palce under tension from your recoil spring assembly I don't see how it could fall out?? Could happen. I have seen broken take down latch springs before.
What other pins have you seen fall out or shear off? There's only three pins in the whole gun and you've already indicated the trigger pin as a problem. I have never had a pin fall out or shear, there is little stress on the trigger mech housing pin. The only cause for that one falling out is someone using the wrong size punch for the hole and enlargening the frame hole. Possibly a bad pin right out of the box, or someone beating on it too hard and weakening or fracturing it.
As for the mag issues, well the mags do wear out. I have yet to wear out any of my mags but some are looking pretty rough. Mags remaining in the gun could be older mags without the steel liner and they were designed to swell when loaded and not fall out. However when empty they should drop down or drop free. After Glock hit the US market their mags were changed to meet the US demand for drop free mags, loaded or not.
The plastic sights.... I like the sight design but the plastic SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for some real sights, like steel body night sights.
CF
When you discuss the "pin" failing and allowing the Glock to fire as was the supposed case in Calgary, what pin are you talking about? Should anyone on this board further investigate the complete operation of the Glock safe action system you would know that it is physically impossible for a Glock to go off unless SOMETHING(finger, stick, whatever) pulls the trigger. Having a rail separation will not allow the firing pin to strike the primer. The firing pin block is still in place preventing this. having the cricuble sear falling down its track and allowing the firing pin to strike the primer(this is how your Glock operates) is impossible due to the fact that the trigger must be pulled thus moving the crucible sear rearward in its track to the point where it is then permitted to drop down far enough to allow the firing pin to travel forward under sping tension which was created when pulling the trigger to strike the primer. Don't forget that the trigger bar is also disengaging the firing pin block while you pull the trigger. Having thrown the gun and having significant force upon impact would still not allow the sear to release the firing pin. The safety in the trigger is spring loaded to remain in a forward or safe position, furthermore the firing pin is not under enough spring tension to discharge a round until it is fully compressed via pulling the trigger which disengages all safetys on(in) the gun.
Being unscientific in your experiences at your local range Slavex. I have a hard time believing that you saw the trigger safety fall out of a Glock. The pin that holds the trigger safety "tab" if you will is pressed in and from the left side of the trigger (when holding it). The pin cannot be removed by the user. As for the factory ammo KB's. That's an ammo problem, not a gun problem. Yes the Glock has an unsupported chamber but so does every other pistol. The Glock's have a slightly less unsupported chamber that facilitates the use and consumption of almost all ammo. Reloads are always in question, could have been multiple factors. Most makers do not permit reloads(if you want to keep your warranty) through their guns.
Again, What are these broken trigger pins? Aer you talking about the trigger pin that holds the trigger in the frame? That is a pretty beefy pin to be breaking. I see negligence from the user being of concern. remember disassembling your Glock further than field stripping I.E. pushing out pins voids warranty and should only be done by an approved Glock armourer.
Seeing as how your take down latch is held in palce under tension from your recoil spring assembly I don't see how it could fall out?? Could happen. I have seen broken take down latch springs before.
What other pins have you seen fall out or shear off? There's only three pins in the whole gun and you've already indicated the trigger pin as a problem. I have never had a pin fall out or shear, there is little stress on the trigger mech housing pin. The only cause for that one falling out is someone using the wrong size punch for the hole and enlargening the frame hole. Possibly a bad pin right out of the box, or someone beating on it too hard and weakening or fracturing it.
As for the mag issues, well the mags do wear out. I have yet to wear out any of my mags but some are looking pretty rough. Mags remaining in the gun could be older mags without the steel liner and they were designed to swell when loaded and not fall out. However when empty they should drop down or drop free. After Glock hit the US market their mags were changed to meet the US demand for drop free mags, loaded or not.
The plastic sights.... I like the sight design but the plastic SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for some real sights, like steel body night sights.
CF
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- Location
- Alberta land of many guns
ummm.... No. I think baked on food would be a real bi*ch to get off.
CF
CF
Pure Energy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A river runs through it.
I sure as hell wouldent want to be the guy pulling the trigger!
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