Glock blocked: OPP dumps SIG for Glock

Avenida said:
If you are intending to use the pistol for competition, night sights are again a waste of money not only because you will never use them, but also because they do not bring any benefits, they are blocky just as the original sights.
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Speak for yourself. Some people actually have shot in the dark before in competition.
 
Canuck44 said:
What proof have you of this?

Glock Kabooms are legendary in the 40 cal. Glocks are far easier to limp wrist than most I have shot. The only failures I have witnessed as a Chief Safety Officer at a large sanctioned event in the US over a ten year span have been Glocks ie Glock 17- not proof of anything other than my limited experience - four on one stage in one year alone. Two broken strikers and one broken spring. The other was limp wristed induced jam from hell.

They are dependable firearms for certain but to say they are the most dependable pistol.....I am not so sure as you are. A good friend of mine was a Glock armourer and he was not wanting for work. Glock is on their fourth generation and I do recall folks like you claiming it was perfection back when the Gen 2 were the rage.,,,apparently not.

Individual experiences vary but in over 55 years of handgun shooting I have experienced exactly three handgun failures, outside of ammo issues. The first was a broken slide stop lever in a PreB CZ85 Combat 1988 model with a zillion rounds through it the second a broken striker on my early M&P FS and the third a broken spring on a Uberti SAA of 1873 vintage. The M&P came with deficient strikers in the early versions. Mine broke at around 7K rounds. The new versions appear to be bullet proof. I add this to make the point that modern CNC equipment and handgun designs of recent date are all extremely reliable devices if maintained well. Parts do break.

Take Care

Bob
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Super late reply Bob, I missed your last somehow.

As for proof, have a look at the FBI testing they just completed last year. The FBI has arguably the most stringent and rigorous testing of any agency/dept/military when it comes to firearm selection and guess what won... Again. If you look around everyone is trying to meet or beat Glock for reliability as they are THE gold standard. Plenty of insane torture test reports and videos as well. I will admit a lot of the "testing" is ridiculous but nevertheless it still has merit.

Your observations have little merit as we have no idea if the pistols were properly cared for, and I'm betting they weren't stock, competitors have a nasty habit of f**king with functioning guns in an attempt to cover up their inabilities.

Limp wristing is a joke from the word go. If you're limp wristing you aren't hitting anything anyway so it makes no difference if the gun fails. User induced stoppages are just that, user induced. Limp wristing is a byproduct of ignorance. Now personally I've never seen it happen with a Glock and I've never been able to duplicate it.

Glock's fourth generation is simply minor tweaks and cosmetic changes. I don't like the gen 4 guns for two reasons, the interchangeable backstraps are a gimmick and the oversized mag release is well over sized and can't be reduced. The design of the pistol hasn't changed since it came to be. Geometry changes, treatment changes on the slide and other minor tweaks are the bulk of the generation gaps.

The slogan "Glock, perfection" is only part of their slogan. The full version is " Glock, perfection in simplicity". As of yet no one makes a pistol with fewer parts or a rather a simpler design than Glock. No one said their pistols were "perfect" as perfect doesn't exist. Glock pistols however are closer to perfect than the rest. So close in fact that everyone else is trying to copy their recipe....Weird.

Avenida said:
I think not long ago there was a police department suing SIG due to their pistols having failure to eject, oh wait, I do have a link:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...edly-selling-defective-handguns-state-police/

Any striker fired pistol will Kaboom, metal guns just do differently due to the pressure not being able to escape through the frame. A Kaboom is a Kaboom, regardless of make or type, it happens to all pistols. It is not a GLOCK thing, at least not anymore

If you are going to use anecdotal stories, please also make sure to educate the new shooters: Older GLOCKS lacked a fully supported chamber, something that would create the GLOCK BULGE in brass, specially .40 due to the high pressure, This was the main cause of Kabooms.

New Glocks do not have this problem as all the chambers have been modified to provide more support.

For what is worth here is an anecdotal story (for the life of my daughter this is true), a buddy of mine has over 50K (I bet maybe 70K) in his GLOCK (about 5 years old pistol), I think he cleaned it only once this past year because I was making fun of him and because he had, for the first time ever, a couple of malfunctions (light strikes due to all the crud accumulated around the chamber, ejector, etc). he is a high volume IPSC shooter.
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Most kabooms are the result of incorrect ammo being used and/or RELOADS. Glock makes SERVICE pistols and no MIL or LE unit uses reloads thus Glock couldn't care less about bulged cases and reload issues.
 
GuiltySpark said:
Recommendations between adjustable and night sights on a Glock?
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I have Trijicon on both my 17 and 22. I wouldn't use anything else. If you decide on adjustable DO NOT even consider Glock's adjustable sights.. they are pure garbage IMO! They came on my 17 and they were replaced with Trijicon after my first shoot.
 
Kidd X said:
Super late reply Bob, I missed your last somehow.

As for proof, have a look at the FBI testing they just completed last year. The FBI has arguably the most stringent and rigorous testing of any agency/dept/military when it comes to firearm selection and guess what won... Again. If you look around everyone is trying to meet or beat Glock for reliability as they are THE gold standard. Plenty of insane torture test reports and videos as well. I will admit a lot of the "testing" is ridiculous but nevertheless it still has merit.

Your observations have little merit as we have no idea if the pistols were properly cared for, and I'm betting they weren't stock, competitors have a nasty habit of f**king with functioning guns in an attempt to cover up their inabilities.

Limp wristing is a joke from the word go. If you're limp wristing you aren't hitting anything anyway so it makes no difference if the gun fails. User induced stoppages are just that, user induced. Limp wristing is a byproduct of ignorance. Now personally I've never seen it happen with a Glock and I've never been able to duplicate it.

Glock's fourth generation is simply minor tweaks and cosmetic changes. I don't like the gen 4 guns for two reasons, the interchangeable backstraps are a gimmick and the oversized mag release is well over sized and can't be reduced. The design of the pistol hasn't changed since it came to be. Geometry changes, treatment changes on the slide and other minor tweaks are the bulk of the generation gaps.

The slogan "Glock, perfection" is only part of their slogan. The full version is " Glock, perfection in simplicity". As of yet no one makes a pistol with fewer parts or a rather a simpler design than Glock. No one said their pistols were "perfect" as perfect doesn't exist. Glock pistols however are closer to perfect than the rest. So close in fact that everyone else is trying to copy their recipe....Weird.



Most kabooms are the result of incorrect ammo being used and/or RELOADS. Glock makes SERVICE pistols and no MIL or LE unit uses reloads thus Glock couldn't care less about bulged cases and reload issues.
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What is your source for the reasons for Kabooms. Years ago Portland Police dropped the Glock 40 due to Kabooms with factory ammo. I think they went to the Glock 17 but it has been awhile. I am not sure having the fewest parts has much to do with perfection. A Zip gun made from a pipe will shoot .22LR ammo with three parts if memory serves me right. Hardly perfection. The 320 goes to a whiole new level and the M&P with the one piece embedded chassis is a mig step better than one Glock offers and I have not even mentioned the CZ Shadow/75Series if you want to talk perfection in pistol design.

The Glock grip is a mjor tuenoff. It maybe one piece but copying the Luger grip angle was not the smartest move.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
What is your source for the reasons for Kabooms. Years ago Portland Police dropped the Glock 40 due to Kabooms with factory ammo. I think they went to the Glock 17 but it has been awhile. I am not sure having the fewest parts has much to do with perfection. A Zip gun made from a pipe will shoot .22LR ammo with three parts if memory serves me right. Hardly perfection. The 320 goes to a whiole new level and the M&P with the one piece embedded chassis is a mig step better than one Glock offers and I have not even mentioned the CZ Shadow/75Series if you want to talk perfection in pistol design.

The Glock grip is a mjor tuenoff. It maybe one piece but copying the Luger grip angle was not the smartest move.

Take Care

Bob
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For starters Bob Portland police dropped the Glock 21 chambered in .45 ACP not the model 22 chambered in .40. They had two kabooms within a month after having 230 guns in service for months. This also occurred with Federal ammo which had QC issues at the time. Below is a link of another kaboom of Glock pistols.... Which was the result of bad ammo like 90% of the kabooms with any gun. There are many links to similar stories where dumb people use bad reloads and create a kaboom. In fact, there's plenty of pics and stories of kabooms happening in other makes and models. Ammo is the problem, not the guns.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?34589-Haven-Police-Ditch-Glocks-After-Two-Explode


Your comparison of a Glock to a zip gun is pathetic. Making noise and propelling a projectile out the front of a piece of pipe does not make a firearm. Again, the slogan for Glock is "Glock, perfection in simplicity." I have yet to see anyone build a gun with fewer parts. If the goal like your zip gun analogy is to make it go bang then Glock does that with the fewest parts(and simple design) of any gun on the market.

The 320 is simply a rebranded sig 250 without a hammer. There's no magic in either gun and there certainly isn't any "revolutionary" design features. An interchangeable frame is an answer to a question that no one asked. Changing calibres and/or pistol size(full to compact or vise versa) is not something that is necessary nor of any value. The cost to swap sizes or calibre is almost the same as buying another gun. SIG pushed the 320 hard for MIL and LE use and they have no need for calibre changes as the calibre is pre determined, and changing sizes is plain pointless for overt/exposed carry as a SECONDARY firearm. In addition to that if a compact pistol fits the role then why bother with a full size? The same can be said for the full size as well. If you look closely at the US Army contract for the 320 they plan to buy about a half million pistols and just 7000 will be compacts, that's a whopping 1.4% of the contract. I can see the modularity is a key factor at play:rolleyes:

The M&P is a joke. Smith's what, third attempt to copy a Glock and second edition. The changes were minimal but amusing. The fantastic beavertail that so many raved about on the first gen of M&P pistols is now..... GONE. And the cool feature of "auto forwarding/auto loading" has now be corrected with a modified slide stop. The frame texturing is lame and the trigger was improved but is still far from great. It's wider and taller than a Glock 17 but the M&P also has a shorter barrel more akin to a Glock 19, in which case the M&P is a half inch taller, still wider, and about an ounce heavier.

The shadow is a very fat pig that is not suited for service use. A DA/SA hammer fired gun is outdated and one that doesn't have a decocker is plain stupid. It's a quarter inch wider than a Glock, holds only one more round than a Glock(17) and yet it's nearly a half inch taller! A loaded G17 with 17 rounds of ammunition is nearly a half pound lighter than an empty shadow. The melted/dehorned controls are stupid as is the recessed slide... Wait, even CZ has figured this out and is now trying the "failed" Glock recipe of a polymer framed striker fired pistol with a conventional slide, a trigger bar safety and low profile controls.:rolleyes: The plain Jane CZ75 is just a grossly outdated POS.

As for the grip Angle of Glock pistols(and others) perhaps you should do a little research, the angle is ideal for the skeletal structure of the human hand/arm. It provides for a very natural pointing grip while also providing the shooter a lot of control. In fact the grip angle closely mimics that of old revolvers. Have a look at the 4:15 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7J-JNSUu4

And the 6:00 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBDmAMEzSys
 
OK you got me on the Portland comment.

As for your remaining defense I am not sure where you are going with it other than to make some dubious comments. Let's agree the Glock is on it's 4th Edition. Each pistol iteration pronounced by all the faithful as the perfect pistol.

The M&P Pistol is on it's 2nd Generation. It is no copy of the Glock. It can't be because as you suggest the Glock is perfection and according to your commentary the M&P is not perfect. It may not be but it's ergonomics are light yearas ahead of the block Glock.

Your comments on the CZ Shadow are laughable and frankly distract from anything you really have to say about firearms. Name me another firearm design that has dominated a sport more than the CZ Shadow. It was and remains a purpose built pistol to win at IPSC Production and those who use it win the division world wide using the gun. The new Shadow2 just enhances the purpose built gun. In Canada we can load a max of 10 rounds in a caliber specific pistol mag. Any concerns beyond that capacity restriction in the Canadian Concept. IPSC Production is shot worldwide with 10 round mag limitations. The Shadow uses the same mags as other iterations of the 75 series of pistols hence the ability to load more than 10 rds. The remainder f your tirade against the Shadow I assume relates to the new Shadow2 and are simply trolling. You might review the needs of those who shoot IPSC Production before you mouth off about the equipment participants find attractive for their sport.

FYI the Glock 34 and M&P PROs dominate two IDPA Divisions for reasons that relate to that sport. The 34 and PRO are Production guns aimed squarely at the competitive market.

Your Glock gun naturally points high when held in the hand. The angle, as far as I know, was taken from the Luger which makes sense given the geographic homeland of the Glock.

Take Care

Bob
 
Before the Internet, gun magazines used to be full of articles like this thread.

.45 vs. 9mm vs. .40
DA vs. SA
polymer vs. metal
Glocks vs. Sig vs. S&W vs. Beretta
115 gr JHP vs. subsonic 147 gr JHP.

I enjoy different guns as they all offer something different.
That being said, if there was a SAO Sig P239, or if Glock 19's came with a less angled grip with different sized inserts I wouldn't own as many pistols as I do now.
 
A provincial government agency chose the cheapest/lowest cost product and people are proud and surprised like it actually reflects on the quality of the product!? Hahahaha

Oh the internet armchair comparison threads never end do they?
The Sig and Glock are both excellent guns. I prefer and own the Sig P226 because I like an external hammer and I like to be able to chamber a round then de-####/make it safe without having to unload it. Plus I've shot one previously to owning one for many many years and I can strip, assemble, handle and shoot it with my eyes closed all day.

Other than that, I'd probably be a Glock owner for the price point alone. I've shot many of them. They are accurate, reliable, tough and simple and very easy to shoot.
 
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Yesterday, I was officiating a sailing race at our local club, on a sizable inland man-made lake in Southern Ontario. We have a private entrance and a private launch ramp. MNR truck with a Bass Boat in to came in, so I went over to see what the boys were up to. They were launching on the "private" side, instead of the public side of the lake to be a little "less obvious". I told them that we had 6 boats in a race on a set course, and asked them to watch out for them. No problem, they said (and did) that they are not interested in sail boats, only fishermen.

As we visited a bit more I asked them about their side arms, and they told me that they are switching also to 9mm with the OPP; it is a provincial government bulk-buy to get the best price.

I asked them what they thought of the 9mm vs the .40s and they seemed really ok with it. Their .40s are bigger and bulkier and do not lend themselves well to concealed carry, and the pistols and mags are lighter for day to day service carry also. Likewise, having the same mags and ammo, they can share with the OPP if the need arises in a tight situation.

Really good guys and they conducted themselves very professionally BTW; I told them to come back any time, and invited them to our gun club as well.
 
Helly said:
He's right.. some detachments switched as far back as a year ago! They've gone with the G17 9mm
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Are you sure? A year ago OPP in central Ontario were being told that selection process had been cancelled and had to be restarted due to concerns about parts of the selection process. Even as late as November/December last year, they had no idea which way the organization was going to go.

It was rumoured that some of the higher-ups knew early this year, but to the best of my knowledge: no SIG-Glock conversion courses have been held anywhere in the province and the OPP won't allow anything without a course first....
 
I was browsing the Glock Factory Training schedule and see that they are putting on the 1 day Armourer Course for OPP on Aug. 17 in Orillia and Aug. 22 for RCMP in Ottawa. The OPP I can understand but the RCMP?


Interesting...
 
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