Glock Grip Reduction

[Clobbersauras]

If the gun shoots better for him afterwards I will be shocked.


The gen4's have a very small grip and removing even more material seems like a bad idea to me. Unless the OP has the hands of an 8 year old, the grip will be too small to press the trigger properly.

I for one cannot believe that anyone would remove the epic texture of a gen 4, but that is none of my business.

Misanthropist just explained why somone would do this mod. It makes the gun point a different way out of the holster than it normally would. Glocks tend to point naturally high for me, so i use a GFA to help alter grip angle. It does help with first shot speed out of the holster if the sights are actually somewhat aligned when you complete your press out, instead of the front sight pointing high.

 

[Gundoggy]

Bowie Tactical Concepts is busy as heck and backed up for about a year, converting Glock and M&P grips.

 

[misanthropist]

Misanthropist just explained why somone would do this mod. It makes the gun point a different way out of the holster than it normally would. Glocks tend to point naturally high for me, so i use a GFA to help alter grip angle. It does help with first shot speed out of the holster if the sights are actually somewhat aligned when you complete your press out, instead of the front sight pointing high.

Pretty common. Can you train to it? Absolutely, and in general, it IS the shooter not the grip. You can grip all kinds of shapes effectively: a hockey stick, a golf club, a tennis ball, or a K-frame or a Mateba or a Glock and if you ONLY use that one pistol you can train your body to maximize that shape. When I only shot Glocks, which I did for a couple of years, I didn't find a significant problem with the grip angle, I just trained to that angle.

If you switch platforms, you'll find that nothing other than a Luger has that angle. It's too shallow. The M&P, the 1911, the 226, the P30, the USP, the HK45, the CZ75, the BHP...they're all pretty similar and the Glock is out in left field.

If you are someone who likes a couple of different guns AND you want to maximize your performance with both of them, changing the grip angle to be more congruent with your other gun might not be a bad idea.


As far as the grip circumference goes, I haven't found it to be an issue and I have huge hands. I used to keep an Ipad in an Otterbox for work, and jokingly pull it out like a phone, holding it in one hand like you would hold a regular cell phone. My hands are big.

It's probably not a problem simply because the main area you're removing material is at the bottom of the grip, where, in my experience, most people have less contact than anywhere else. A smaller circumference doesn't really hurt you there.


Texture is kind of a personal thing and some people will be adequately served by the Gen 4 texture, which IS a big improvement over the Gen 3 and below. I stippled one of my Glocks after slipping on a range in a monsoon-grade downpour, and getting my right hand muddy, then having to go for my gun. The gun was slippery in my hand with the really soaking muddy texture and I thought I could improve it. Turns out I could and it wasn't very difficult. The gun is a keeper, so why not? Besides which, it was a used $400 Glock when I bought it...who cares? Zero collector value.


If the OP gets a performance improvement off the work, awesome. If not, well, it's just another Glock. They'll make more.

 

[Smcx]

Interesting thread. After firing a couple of glock models, i was convinced that i would never buy one due to the way it fits my hand. Now i may end up with one someday.

 

[scott_r]

Not my cup of tea. The OP asked for thoughts, so here is mine:

Factory Glock Gen 3 = $650
modified Glock = $0 resale value

New H&K fully ambi with back and side straps P30L, totally customizable from factory, it will fit any hand = $1150

So there is that.

Perhaps the OP doesnt care for the HK p30L, its not for everyone. Been there tried that.

 

[wildchef]

Nice work Joe surprised that thing fits in your bearpaws, I always say that a .50 DEagle is better fit for your hands Lol.

 

[Avenida]

For the same reason a Fiat 500 or BMW 1 series will take me from point A to B, a glock or a P30 would do the same thing, I get it.

The question is not what, but more HOW.

My point was investment oriented and not a GLOCK VS X comment. Once you have done something like that to a gun, that is it, it is worth nothing.
Why would you do that when there are other options that have everything you need, out of the box. Yes, you will pay more, I get that.

The point is there is no turning back after such mod. Not even for a trade.

So he probably does not care about the P30, he clearly does not care about the Glock either.

Why creating a one of a kind gun? so you can only shoot your own Glock, clearly, making another one exacly the same will be difficult, time consuming and perhaps impossible since he is clearly eye balling the looks, edges and other measurements...

It doesn't seem a good approach from a training/survival/self defence/duty point of view.

Perhaps the OP doesnt care for the HK p30L, its not for everyone. Been there tried that.

 

[T_A_N_K]

My point was investment oriented and not a GLOCK VS X comment. Once you have done something like that to a gun, that is it, it is worth nothing.
Why would you do that when there are other options that have everything you need, out of the box. Yes, you will pay more, I get that.

I understand your perspective and it may be worth nothing to you and perhaps to everyone else as well, but it's not you and everyone that is shooting my pistol, I am.

I have yet to find anything that agrees with my hand and has everything that I want. The only one that comes close is the Walther PPQ, but my hands are too big, if they made a full size version I will have to give it a try, but otherwise I took what I like from various different firearms as well as some of my ideas and attempted to apply to this one.

The gen4's have a very small grip and removing even more material seems like a bad idea to me. Unless the OP has the hands of an 8 year old, the grip will be too small to press the trigger properly.

I for one cannot believe that anyone would remove the epic texture of a gen 4, but that is none of my business.

To give you some perspective, my one hand can fully cover a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and then some. I agree that the grip texture is quite good, when compared to previous generation of glocks, but I think there are a lot better ones out there when you look at other fire arm manufacturers.

I created a "one of a kind" gun because I'm a one of a kind person . If I wanted to invest in firearms (financially) then I would have a whole lot of guns that I couldn't shoot and that would just be no fun!

I don't see this as any different than taking my pants to a tailor, no one else is going to be wearing them but me . I do appreciate your feedback and it is interesting to see you school of thought whether they are agreeable or not.

Edit:

I am more or less done for now, I would like to take it to the range and see how it goes. I do not like the epoxy I used, would recommend something that is black, or at least very dark. It did not agree with the stippling. The beaver tail could use some more refinement aesthetically, but it's solid and not going anywhere.

http://imgur.com/a/fbnTL

 

[metcalfe]

If you have larger than average hands, why would you reduce the grip size? That seems like a bad idea to me.

You asked for peoples concerns, and what I am saying is that by making the gun smaller, your trigger finger will be too "long" in a sense, making it more difficult to press the trigger straight back.
I am only assuming here, but I think you'll have trouble shooting it accurately.

The reason Glock has a different grip angle than most other pistols is because they have taken into account the torquing motion of ones wrists, to lock the gun in place for maximum recoil control. The idea is, you become a concrete wall, and the gun can't move off target between shots, allowing you to shoot both quickly and accurately.

Many people don't shoot that way, so the gun points up into the sky for them. Anyone not taking advantage of that engineered feature is missing out.

 

[Avenida]

This!!!

if you have larger than average hands, why would you reduce the grip size? That seems like a bad idea to me.

You asked for peoples concerns, and what i am saying is that by making the gun smaller, your trigger finger will be too "long" in a sense, making it more difficult to press the trigger straight back.
I am only assuming here, but i think you'll have trouble shooting it accurately.

The reason glock has a different grip angle than most other pistols is because they have taken into account the torquing motion of ones wrists, to lock the gun in place for maximum recoil control. The idea is, you become a concrete wall, and the gun can't move off target between shots, allowing you to shoot both quickly and accurately.

Many people don't shoot that way, so the gun points up into the sky for them. Anyone not taking advantage of that engineered feature is missing out.

 

[T_A_N_K]

Although my hands are larger than average, they are significantly thicker as well and my fingers are fairly normal if not short in length. Based on how I changed the angle of the back strap by reducing the grip size my hand compliments the frame better, as before it felt like it was more displaced instead? I'm not really sure how else to describe.

 

[Clobbersauras]

Many people don't shoot that way, so the gun points up into the sky for them. Anyone not taking advantage of that engineered feature is missing out.

LOL!

I guess guys like Pat Rogers, Dave Harrington, Ken Hackathorn, Paul Gomez and a whole bunch of others who use the GFA, and all those that have permanently altered their Glock grip angle don't really know anything about the Glock and are missing out on a key engineered feature? LOL!

Not every engineered feature on the Glock (sights come to mind too) is a good engineered feature.

 

[misanthropist]

My understanding (which is not based on internet rumour as it happens) is that Gaston Glock modeled the grip angle after the Luger, which he favoured for political reasons. That's the polite version, incidentally.

He wasn't really a gun guy. He was a plastics guy, and his idea involved taking the barrel and slide from a 226, using a striker instead of a hammer, and sticking it on a plastic frame. It worked pretty well although the early Glocks were not especially reliable (a fact now totally forgotten about by almost everyone). But the barrel-slide lockup of the 226 offset the fairly generous tolerances of the G17 and produced a gun that was accurate enough, and eventually very reliable and very user serviceable.

Over time the design was refined and became very cheap, very effective, and very popular. Many Glocks are very good pistols. But I agree with Clob...not every engineered feature is a good engineered feature. Some aren't even particularly engineered; they're just left over design quirks from the original concept. The grip angle isn't some special feature designed to make your grip stronger. It's just a weird grip angle.

 

[metcalfe]

LOL!

I guess guys like Pat Rogers, Dave Harrington, Ken Hackathorn, Paul Gomez and a whole bunch of others who use the GFA, and all those that have permanently altered their Glock grip angle don't really know anything about the Glock and are missing out on a key engineered feature? LOL!

Not every engineered feature on the Glock (sights come to mind too) is a good engineered feature.

If it works for you, that is wonderful. I'm also happy for you that you can quote professional shooters when it comes to why you purchased a bottle of snake oil...
There are plenty of people ranging from average guys like me, right up to pro shooters who can somehow aim a glock without first seeing the sky.

My understanding (which is not based on internet rumour as it happens) is that Gaston Glock modeled the grip angle after the Luger, which he favoured for political reasons. That's the polite version, incidentally.

He wasn't really a gun guy. He was a plastics guy, and his idea involved taking the barrel and slide from a 226, using a striker instead of a hammer, and sticking it on a plastic frame. It worked pretty well although the early Glocks were not especially reliable (a fact now totally forgotten about by almost everyone). But the barrel-slide lockup of the 226 offset the fairly generous tolerances of the G17 and produced a gun that was accurate enough, and eventually very reliable and very user serviceable.

Over time the design was refined and became very cheap, very effective, and very popular. Many Glocks are very good pistols. But I agree with Clob...not every engineered feature is a good engineered feature. Some aren't even particularly engineered; they're just left over design quirks from the original concept. The grip angle isn't some special feature designed to make your grip stronger. It's just a weird grip angle.

That is a nice story. Not sure why/how I'm suppose to believe it as fact, as I have now read it for the first time on the internet...

Regardless of what you think of the angle, what it does, works. I believe that is engineering at its finest.
If it happened to be luck, so be it.

 

[misanthropist]

If it works for you, that is wonderful. I'm also happy for you that you can quote professional shooters when it comes to why you purchased a bottle of snake oil...
There are plenty of people ranging from average guys like me, right up to pro shooters who can somehow aim a glock without first seeing the sky.





That is a nice story. Not sure why/how I'm suppose to believe it as fact, as I have now read it for the first time on the internet...

Regardless of what you think of the angle, what it does, works. I believe that is engineering at its finest.
If it happened to be luck, so be it.

Do you get the whole "transitioning platforms" issue though?

You can train to the Glock grip angle...that's the easiest thing to do if you only shoot Glocks.

But if you switch between a Glock and a 1911 or a Glock and an M&P, the variation in grip angle WILL slow you down. There IS a potential advantage in altering the grip angle; whether you will make use of it or not is totally up to you. But let's not pretend that there is no issue at all with running two different grip angles; it's an issue and whether the effect it generates is great enough to worry an individual user is simply up to the user.

Personally I don't find that the slightly shallower angle of the Glock grip "locks" my wrist at all but obviously if you're getting some benefit out of it and the downsides don't apply to you I wouldn't advise you to change anything.

 

[metcalfe]

I understand what you're saying, it isn't an issue for me as I also shoot a m&p, and simply prefer the glock over all other pistols.

What I don't understand is why people buy glocks if they don't like them. lol


To the OP, the gun looks cool, and I hope it works out well for you.

 

[TDC]

Do you get the whole "transitioning platforms" issue though?

You can train to the Glock grip angle...that's the easiest thing to do if you only shoot Glocks.

But if you switch between a Glock and a 1911 or a Glock and an M&P, the variation in grip angle WILL slow you down. There IS a potential advantage in altering the grip angle; whether you will make use of it or not is totally up to you. But let's not pretend that there is no issue at all with running two different grip angles; it's an issue and whether the effect it generates is great enough to worry an individual user is simply up to the user.

Personally I don't find that the slightly shallower angle of the Glock grip "locks" my wrist at all but obviously if you're getting some benefit out of it and the downsides don't apply to you I wouldn't advise you to change anything.

I call bs on the severity of grip angle inducing poor sight alignment when switching platforms. Yes it does make a difference, but it shouldn't be substantial. If you can't pick up a pistol and make solid hits, your fundamentals need work. In addition, why are people switching between systems? If this "issue" is such an issue, then stick with one system.

As for the glock based on luger pistols comment, that is wrong. Gaston Glock did not design the entire pistol. He sought the design wishes of several top military and competitive shooters throughout the design process. He also had other engineers both with and without firearm design experience on his team.

Tdc

 

[Clobbersauras]

I call bs on the severity of grip angle inducing poor sight alignment when switching platforms. Yes it does make a difference, but it shouldn't be substantial. If you can't pick up a pistol and make solid hits, your fundamentals need work. In addition, why are people switching between systems? If this "issue" is such an issue, then stick with one system.



Tdc

He wasn't saying he couldn't make good hits. He was saying he was slower with first shot speed with the stock grip angle. Somewhere between .05 and .1, if you cared to read what he wrote. He measured his performance, it wasn't as good with the stock Glock grip angle.

Why would anyone stick with something that would make them slower? Makes no sense. You and Metcalfe can fanboy the stock Glock all you want, and if they work for you that's great. I love my Glock for it's simplicity and reliability. But if i can modify the gun in a way that won't compromise safety or reliability (or act as a crutch for poor fundamentals), and it helps me shoot better, I'm doing it.

 

[misanthropist]

It definitely shouldn't prevent you from making hits but you will note that I commented that I found I would lose about .05 - .10 of a second when first transitioning guns on the first shot off the draw.

If you can't make the hits at all the problem is you

If you can make the hits but correcting for the variation in platforms takes an extra twentieth of a second you may not care...but if you can fix it, why not?

Finally...I don't recall claiming that no one else was involved in the design of the Glock.

 

[mmattockx]

Many people don't shoot that way, so the gun points up into the sky for them. Anyone not taking advantage of that engineered feature is missing out.

So the hundreds of gun designers that have used the 1911 grip angle have all gotten it wrong and only Glock has it right? I'm going to be skeptical on that one.


OP, nice work on the gun, I hope it works out for you.


Mark