GLOCK17 accuracy versus STI
- Thread starter geologist
- Start date
I was also advised to grip 60% with my weak (left) hand and only 40% with my strong hand.
I should try to concentrate only on the trigger pull with my right and control the recoil and pistol position with my left.
I should try to concentrate only on the trigger pull with my right and control the recoil and pistol position with my left.
- Location
- Alberta land of many guns
geologist said:
+1
The real key to good results is the shooter. Anybody can miss the target with even the best rig. The best shooter can hit the target with a mediocre gun. The variable here is the shooter. YEs the gin makes a difference, but the shooter makes the biggest difference.
IN terms of accuracy, what are we really discussing here? Olypmic level performaces requiring the custom guns that Redleg described? No, we're talking about "action pistol" shooting requiring hits on a 5"x11" A zone target. So really, does that extra 1/10 or 1/4 of an inch of consistant paper punching ability really make a difference? My answer is no. For probably 99% of the shooters out there, we will never be able to shoot as well as the guns we use. The sports we participate in only require acceptable dare I say "combat accuracy" to remain competative. Not to stir the pot, but which gun do you think will take more abuse without failure? That super ###y well tuned 1911 or that combat tupperware? Both have their purposes and both have their ups and downs.
CF
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Accuracy of the pistol is more important than Cannonfodder makes out.
If your pistol is only capable of a 5" group at 25 yards and you're shooting a 5" wide A-zone then you have to be a PERFECT shooter always firing at EXACTLY dead centre to sure to get the A-zone hit.
On the other hand if your pistol is capable of 1" groups at 25 yards then as a less than perfect shooter you can be within a 3" wide range centred on the A-zone and still be sure your shot hit the 5" wide A-zone.
I know which option I'd rather have.
If your pistol is only capable of a 5" group at 25 yards and you're shooting a 5" wide A-zone then you have to be a PERFECT shooter always firing at EXACTLY dead centre to sure to get the A-zone hit.
On the other hand if your pistol is capable of 1" groups at 25 yards then as a less than perfect shooter you can be within a 3" wide range centred on the A-zone and still be sure your shot hit the 5" wide A-zone.
I know which option I'd rather have.
- Location
- Alberta land of many guns
Rapt,
I never said that the inherant accuracy of the firearm was not important. I'm simply pointing out that even the most accurate firearm in the hands of a novice can produce less than ideal results. The same is true in a reverse role. However, a quality brand name firearm or even the few who have a well made Norinco can produce acceptable to excellent accuracy results. Provided the shooter does their part. Your example is correct, you cannot shoot a group any better than the gun can. Seeing as how many competition shooters are not running raced up 1911's and still winning I would say that the error in the situation is the shooter not the equipment.
CF
I never said that the inherant accuracy of the firearm was not important. I'm simply pointing out that even the most accurate firearm in the hands of a novice can produce less than ideal results. The same is true in a reverse role. However, a quality brand name firearm or even the few who have a well made Norinco can produce acceptable to excellent accuracy results. Provided the shooter does their part. Your example is correct, you cannot shoot a group any better than the gun can. Seeing as how many competition shooters are not running raced up 1911's and still winning I would say that the error in the situation is the shooter not the equipment.
CF
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
Rapt said:
"a less than perfect shooter"
Hmm... care to define what that term means?
Though I must say I find your analysis rather accurate.
I love the internet!!!!!!!!
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mebiuspower said:"a less than perfect shooter"
Hmm... care to define what that term means?
Though I must say I find your analysis rather accurate.
I love the internet!!!!!!!!
i'll define it for you. a less than perfect shooter is someone who cannot shoot a 1" dot 10 times for 10 shots at 10 yards, while taking their time and concentrating and doing everything right. if you can't do that, you suck.
disclaimer: this info comes from the internet, and is therefore right.
cannonfodder said:
All too true, but the gun does make a difference and is part of the equation, to ignore it's role is silly.
cannonfodder said:
No, I was not discussing accuracy at all, I was discussing the "fit" of the gun to the shooter. Good triggers, good sights and good grip angle and size, all contribute to the shooter's capability. It matters not what the goal of the shooting exercise is, if the gun "fits" the shooter better his score will be better.
As for which gun will run longer without failure, based on my range guns over the past 5 years, my experience has been that the 1911 type Kimbers last longer and perform better than the Glocks. YMMV.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Not in IPSC Standard division, and 1911s are not permitted in Production, so where are competition shooters winning with non-raced up 1911s?cannonfodder said:
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Freedom Ventures said:
OK, I should have specified Single Actions...I thought that would be implied based on the thread.mebiuspower said:
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The two triggers are not the same. Ones DAO the other SAO.
Shooting double action I practiced with a crossman airpistol. Nasty trigger. Get good and smooth with that everything else is easy. Mind, at the end of it my trigger finger was double the size of the rest of my fingers...
Shooting double action I practiced with a crossman airpistol. Nasty trigger. Get good and smooth with that everything else is easy. Mind, at the end of it my trigger finger was double the size of the rest of my fingers...
- Location
- Alberta land of many guns
Redleg,
Let me clear this up. I was referring to your comment about custom molded grips, not necessarily custom guns. Again, the equipment definitely plays a role in providing results as does the shooter.
Freedom Ventures,
There are non 1911 shooters competing in IPSC with great results. Like Dave Sevigny, Sharon Zaffiro, and Debbie Keehart-Ross. All of whom captured top place at the 2002 World shoot. Yes they competed in production, Standard
and Production divisions respectively. How about Ernest Langdon. he won the CDP divison in 2003 with a SIG P220 in traditional double action. Beating many using custom 1911's. That alone proves that its not just equipment that produces a win.
IN my opinion IPSC is more of a "sport" than a practical shooting confederation. It seems that the individual with the most money dumped into his rig, the most rounds down range in practice is usually the one who scores well. A fun sport for sure. Definitely not practical. SO to compare a standard DAO Glock to a well tuned "Race" 1911 like STI is not a fair comparison.
CF
Let me clear this up. I was referring to your comment about custom molded grips, not necessarily custom guns. Again, the equipment definitely plays a role in providing results as does the shooter.
Freedom Ventures,
There are non 1911 shooters competing in IPSC with great results. Like Dave Sevigny, Sharon Zaffiro, and Debbie Keehart-Ross. All of whom captured top place at the 2002 World shoot. Yes they competed in production, Standard
and Production divisions respectively. How about Ernest Langdon. he won the CDP divison in 2003 with a SIG P220 in traditional double action. Beating many using custom 1911's. That alone proves that its not just equipment that produces a win.
IN my opinion IPSC is more of a "sport" than a practical shooting confederation. It seems that the individual with the most money dumped into his rig, the most rounds down range in practice is usually the one who scores well. A fun sport for sure. Definitely not practical. SO to compare a standard DAO Glock to a well tuned "Race" 1911 like STI is not a fair comparison.
CF
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I brought 2 glock's and 2 STI's to the range. One sti race gun.one Trojan.One model34 and one model19. They all shot into 3" at 25yards.Surprising the best score off hand was 97 on the NRA rapid fire target with the glock 19.You say you are a revolver guy. Shoot your revolver single action and then double action.If your doing everything right the score should be the same.If the score is not the same you need more practice.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
geologist said:
Lemme guess, asian guy, mid forties, drives a Mercedes S series, shoots at Ridgedale? (Could be way off, but he's shooting a .40 edge, shoot with him a good deal and a super nice fellow)
