Goat and Elk which bullet - need some opinions
- Thread starter Riflesmith
- Start date
We've shot the 168 TSXs through moose and muskox lengthwise with a .300 Win. Since there's little need to go deeper, they may as well go faster.
Shot 3 red stags with the same bullet and rifle, the difference between them and elk is academic.
I hunted and collected 23 animals in Africa with 150 gn TTSX from my 300 Wby. From 20 lb suni to 3000 lb eland and from 5 mtrs to over 400. It worked perfectly on everything, I highly recommend it and no you don't need 180 gns to do what you need to do. This bullet will do every thing without fail and drive it as fast as your rifle will handle.
Good luck, goat hunting is hard, really, really, really hard.
Good luck, goat hunting is hard, really, really, really hard.
Between my son and I, two large bull moose, a 800 pound zebra, two Kudu ( one very large in the body), two wildebeest and a couple of large Gemsbok along with several pickup loads of deer sized game have dropped quite quickly to that bullet from a 300 Win mag in my case and a 30-06 in my son's.
The 168 gr TSx isn't a guess at this stage, impacts would have varied from 3100ish to 2300ish, always perfect performance.
you're asking too much for one bullet to reasonably do IMO. You have to make some compromises.
You want a bullet that will hold together well at velocities from 3300 to 2000fps (0-500 yards), penetrate well through elk sized animals, yet offer good performance on goat sizec critters. And, naturally, give good accuracy and external ballistics.
For goat at 500 yards, you'd probably want a soft-ish lead-core boat tail ballistic tip on the heavy side. For elk at 50 yards, you'd want a mono. Mono's won't give spectacular performance at 2000 fps.
Personally, faced with that situation, I'd be looking more towards a 208 grain a-max or maybe berger VLD. Both are heavy enough to work OK on elk, and offer exceptional exterior ballistics and LR characteristics. They're favourable for goat at long ranges, and *OK* for elk at shorter ranges. Compromise favouring goats. Going the other way, I'd choose a 165-ish grainer TTSX or GMX. Their robust construction would work well on elk at moderate ranges, and still retain enough velocity to give *OK* performance at longer ranges while compromising drift and terminal ballistics.
There's no such thing as a 'do all' bullet that's ideal for what you want. It's an impossible situation
You want a bullet that will hold together well at velocities from 3300 to 2000fps (0-500 yards), penetrate well through elk sized animals, yet offer good performance on goat sizec critters. And, naturally, give good accuracy and external ballistics.
For goat at 500 yards, you'd probably want a soft-ish lead-core boat tail ballistic tip on the heavy side. For elk at 50 yards, you'd want a mono. Mono's won't give spectacular performance at 2000 fps.
Personally, faced with that situation, I'd be looking more towards a 208 grain a-max or maybe berger VLD. Both are heavy enough to work OK on elk, and offer exceptional exterior ballistics and LR characteristics. They're favourable for goat at long ranges, and *OK* for elk at shorter ranges. Compromise favouring goats. Going the other way, I'd choose a 165-ish grainer TTSX or GMX. Their robust construction would work well on elk at moderate ranges, and still retain enough velocity to give *OK* performance at longer ranges while compromising drift and terminal ballistics.
There's no such thing as a 'do all' bullet that's ideal for what you want. It's an impossible situation
3000lbs...are you sure that wasn't two eland tied together?
Eland are the largest antelope in the world and the 2 bulls I shot were both exceptional in horn and body size, the biggest of the big. I personally did not weigh them, I am strictly going on what the PH told me. He said they often go 3000 lb for the big, big old bulls and weigh about 50% more than a big bull buffalo. I took his word, however when you walk up to a big bull on the ground he reminded me of walking up to a huge bull wood bison I shot several years ago and he went right around 3000 lbs.
If you have never walked up to one you cannot imagine how emense they really are.
But like I said I'm relying on heresay, albeit from a highly qualified source.
How many head of game have you taken with the TSX or TTSX? What is your experience base for this opinion?
I thought - and so now I quickly googled and confirmed - that Common Eland (Cape, Livingstone and Patterson's) grow to about 1500lbs, while the Lord Derby Eland gets up to 2200lbs. So I guess a freak Lord Derby Eland may get close...
More than I can count? I would not use a TSX if my expected impact velocity was less than 2500 fps; 2700 would be preferable.
Not that they don't work, but there are other bullets that work better under these conditions.
I've been lied to, what can I say. They are big though, but not quite as big as I've been led to believe. Thanks for the correction, I hate looking like an idiot.
They work well down to 2,000fps in my experience but no doubt they are very devestating at higher velocities.
- Location
- AB foothills
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I agree.
This 100gr. TSX's was fired from a 257 Wby with an impact velocity of probably around 3100 fps on a bull elk at 150 yards dead behind the shoulder through the ribs. I found it against the hide on the opposite side. If high velocity impact can do this to the TSX, I'd hate to have seen what a normal cup and core or even bonded bullet would have done. TSX's are definitely reliable bullets that hold together well and expand with great penetration. I don't believe a "low" velocity of 2000 fps would have resulted in no expansion.
Riflesmith
CGN Regular
- Location
- On The Line
Thanks for all the real world tried and true advice. I have some 168's coming and I have 150ttsx and 180' s as well to try. Let the shooting begin!
2,000 or 3,000 pounds, a big Eland bull is bigger than anything else I've ever seen before. The big one I wounded (not the bullet's fault, the shooter) was at least 50% bigger in the body than any moose I've ever seen before.
Just my opinion, but a 180 is heavier bullet then you need. I use a 165 grain Hornady SST out of my 300WSM, My longest shot on a goat was at 611 yards. It dropped with one shot. I use the same load for moose and elk. If you having trouble deciding on bullet weight and your rifle will shoot it accurately then maybe split the difference and try shooting a 165 Grain
