Golden retriever for duck dog?

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

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Hey guys,

Someone local is giving away an 8-month old Golden retriever with all her shots, etc.

I've been looking for a duck dog/pet, but my only dog experience is with Labs (had two of them when I was younger).

Are golden retrievers any good as an actual retriever, or are they just a show dog that's a pain in the butt to keep clean (with all that long hair)?
 
Oh if I speak up here all the swamp collie lovers are sure to jump down my throat but after years of trialing, training and hunting over many dogs I can say that a golden is a good retriever as well but OMG what a pain in the ass to keep clean and free of burrs etc. They generally don't take the cold as well since they retain water in that long hair as well. I have never owned one myself though a few buddies have and oh yes you will love cleaning up all that hair from everything you own.:D
 
I have owned trained hunted and field trialed goldens for over 25 years and the good ones are hard to beat. Problem is there are two distinct breeds of golden out there. show stock and field stock. if you luck out and get field breeding on this pup you might be lucky but if it is "show stock" it may not have any retrieving desire, birdiness or even like water work or hunting in general. finding out more about the parent pedigree of working history "hunting" should be your next step if you are serious about a hunting dog. They all make pretty good pets but if you want a working dog in addition to the companionship you will need to start training an 8 month old right away.
 
DrNick said:
Buy a Cheasapeake.
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If you are a hermit and don't like people;).

Chessies can have some temperment issues (not all or even most of them I know). They are a strong willed dog that will not quit and are probably the best designed cold water retriever in existence. But strong willed can sometime mean stubborn to train and they do take longer than Labs to reach their full potential but once they get there they will blow a Lab out of the water. If trained properly and carefully they are the best dog going for waterfowl. If trained poorly and carelessly, they are worse than useless.

Labs are more forgiving on the training end and aren't known for eating their owners:D. All around, the lab is probably the best dedicated retriever for folks who are not skilled trainers and want a family pet that does a good job retrieving birds.

Goldens just don't work as hard as either of the other two dogs. They don't do as well in cold wet weather and as was mentioned their fur is a pain to clean once dirty and matted (Labs just get a swim in the river to clean them off and burrs do not stick to their fur due to the oil that is on it). They do make great pets and will retrieve adequately for most hunter's purposes.

Me? If I was a dedicated big water bird hunting guide I'd have a couple of Chessies. For everything else, a Lab is more than good enough. Golden's tend to be more hit and miss on the retrieving end.
 
All the info sounds about right to me. I do have a field trials Golden and she absolutely LOVES retrieving ducks from water. As for burrs, I just smooth a little hair conditioner into her tail and feathered areas before the hunt and it works pretty well.

Does she look like a couch potato?

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sjemac said:
If you are a hermit and don't like people;).

Chessies can have some temperment issues (not all or even most of them I know). They are a strong willed dog that will not quit and are probably the best designed cold water retriever in existence. But strong willed can sometime mean stubborn to train and they do take longer than Labs to reach their full potential but once they get there they will blow a Lab out of the water. If trained properly and carefully they are the best dog going for waterfowl. If trained poorly and carelessly, they are worse than useless.

Labs are more forgiving on the training end and aren't known for eating their owners:D. All around, the lab is probably the best dedicated retriever for folks who are not skilled trainers and want a family pet that does a good job retrieving birds.

Goldens just don't work as hard as either of the other two dogs. They don't do as well in cold wet weather and as was mentioned their fur is a pain to clean once dirty and matted (Labs just get a swim in the river to clean them off and burrs do not stick to their fur due to the oil that is on it). They do make great pets and will retrieve adequately for most hunter's purposes.

Me? If I was a dedicated big water bird hunting guide I'd have a couple of Chessies. For everything else, a Lab is more than good enough. Golden's tend to be more hit and miss on the retrieving end.
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Chessies have a cement filled head!:D
 
I have found that the Goldens that a great waterfowl dogs are the exception, not the norm...and when the exception happens, they above par in my oppinion.

My waterfowl dogs are a black lab, and a yellow lab/mute cross.

If the time had been taken to develop the black lab, what a dog he would be.

I simply took him out hunting at 9 months. Shot a duck, he went and got it, end of training.

He goes for the birds like crazy, brings em back and doesn't chew the #### out of them.
 
It has all to do with breeding!!!!!! Not only do you get a dog with no brains, no drive but also a host of health problems which will kill your pocket book. Don't forget, you will have this screwed up dog for the next 10 years. Do your research and buy from a good field kennel. I believe this is even more important with Goldens because they have been screwing around with the breed so that they can look pretty in the show ring. You don't see a lot of Labs on TV. For what it is worth.
 
sjemac said:
If you are a hermit and don't like people;).

Chessies can have some temperment issues (not all or even most of them I know). They are a strong willed dog that will not quit and are probably the best designed cold water retriever in existence. But strong willed can sometime mean stubborn to train and they do take longer than Labs to reach their full potential but once they get there they will blow a Lab out of the water. If trained properly and carefully they are the best dog going for waterfowl. If trained poorly and carelessly, they are worse than useless.
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:agree:
I have trained two Chessies so far and there is a reason they are called hammer heads!!! If you are an experienced dog handler and hardcore duck hunter you will never find a better dog.
If you are not then there are better choices you can make. Another issue with Chessies is that they can be very posessive of their families. I know of several of them that have had biting or agression problems in relation to them "defending" kids in the family when no defense was needed.


Goldens are a little bit of a "softer" dog when it comes to hunting or training but they are still good dogs. The hair issue can be easily managed with regular grooming.
You have to keep in mind what you really want the dog for, most of our hunting dogs spend more time as pets than hunters.
If you have kids and have the chance to get a free golden then I would say go for it. She may turn out to be a hunting machine or may work just well enough to please you. But you can be guaranteed that kids will fall in love with her and she will be their loyal friend.
 
Well, the closest I've ever come to having my wife agree to a dog was a Lab, so that's likely what we'll end up with - she hates long-haired dogs because of the cleanup work, but since this golden retriever was being given away, and was still young, I was curious.

I'll probably end up getting a Lab, 'cuz I am used to them. Out of the two we had growing up, both were great outdoors dogs. One had the unfortunate habit of biting people, so she went back to the guy who gave her to us. He thought we'd screwed up her training, and he could fix her. False! She slaughtered his henhouse twice, then ate her puppies. I think she might have been a bit inbred. It's strange, because her sister was an A-1 fine dog, and we never, ever mistreated her.

Our second Lab was fine, and I could only hope for another dog that gentle. None of us hunted back then, though, so we never maximized her potential!
 
I have a Golden, and he was bought as a companion dog originally....he's the offspring of a show dog but he does like to get birds... Having said that, his little buddy is a Nova Scotia Duck Toller, and he is just nuts for birds!

The only true recognized pure breed in Canada.... they love the icy water, and will do some funny antics by the water until the ducks swim closer to look... then you can jump shoot 'em!
Then he goes and gets them for you. Highly recommended!

I love em both!:)




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TonyMo said:
You can train a lab with milkbones. And train a Chessie with a 2X4.
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Actually, I have found the reverse is true. Chessies are like children....you tend to get much more out of a training session by using positive reinforecement than negative. Ours is a VERY strong willed dog and we've had our battles all right. I'm no pro trainer but I've spent lots of time with her and though I doubt she'd ever win at field trials she is absolutely obedient. She'll retrieve all day long and will not quit....ever. She's pounded through an inch of ice to get at a dummy.

Someone also mentioned that they have an aggressive streak. This is true and I've seen ours place herself in an aggressiv posture between my wife and visitors to the house on several occasions. A 'heel' command and scratch between the ears with a 'good girl' puts her at ease and we've never had a problem. That's the type of aggression I WANT in a dog.

The only other downside I've found (and I've seen this trait in quite a few Chessies) is that when there are other dogs around they go from PLAY to FIGHT in a split second. Anna is only 70 pounds but she laid a beating on a Husky last fall. The dogs were 'playing' and the Husky starting being very aggressive and dominant. When we had broken up the fight I apologized to the Husky's owner and the owner said two things: "He had it coming" and "Wow...your dog fights like a demon"

In short....Chessies are NOT the dog for everyone. You do not have to be a a professional trainer/handler but you DO need to be willing to put the time in with training and relationship building. Oh....they also need a LOT of exercise....but then that's been good for me too :D

Nick
 
Judging by the number of AKC / CKC Registrations and the mix of entries in both Licensed Field Trials and Hunting Retriever stakes, by breed, odds are you'll have a much better chance of finding a good Labrador, and they certainly make good house dogs. Not knocking the Goldens or the Chessies, but rather just stating what the record shows. Over the years, I've owned both Lab & Chessie and my daughter a Golden. Pretty familiar with all their traits ... and have by the way, no troubles with the Chessie being hard to train or anti-social. The Labs and Goldens are most certainly eager to please.

To help keep the peace with She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, the black Labs coat tends to be a little less visible around the house & vehicle. They all shed, but the yellow Lab & Golden's stray hair seems to stand-out more.

Of all the Labs I've hunted over, black males tended to be the most numerous and hardy as far as cold weather/ ice conditions were concerned, however, the easiest to train and and the most outstanding over-all ... were a couple of yellow females. I'n sure there are at least a few out there, but never seen a " 'taint " ( Chocolate Lab ... " 'taint black & it 'taint yellow ") that was worth their kibble.

By all means, look for good hunting stock from a reputable breeder. I would avoid the bench dogs (show stock breeders) entirely, and be somewhat cautious about "hot" field trial stock. Just more dog than most can handle.

BEFORE you decide on a dog, pick up or borrow a copy of the book by Richard Wolters ... "Water Dog". Some very good advice on how to select a pup and how to go about training. Not the final word on retrievers, or retriever training but a very good place to start - and likely a lot more than you know now.

Good point already made... you're going to be investing 10-12 years in your dog and some $15,000 - $20,000, or more, over the course of the dogs lifetime for food, vet bills, etc. Don't let the spectre of a "free" pup cloud your vision. Do everything thing you can to pick the right pup for you and your family, and don't let the breeder's fee frighten you off. They've invested a lot into their dogs and raising a healty litter and a good pup is worth many times over what most pot-lickers are.
 
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The key to having a good family companion that will also hunt is to first research the kennel it comes from, then raise it with your family, I can stand a dog that doesn't hunt as long as it is good with my kids. Then you need to understand the breed and it's general tendencies as far as training and field work are concerned. If you do not have a lot of time to train you are probably best to go with a lab as I have found them to be about the easiest to train to the point where they are acceptable hunters.

My first hunting dog was a golden, she was a beautiful family companion and a star in the agility ring, she would swim like a fish, and retrieve bumpers to she fell over dead, but she would NOT hunt...she was terrified of the gun. We never mistreated her and we had her from 7 weeks old, so her fear was irrational to me, maybe I introduced the gun wrong I don't know. I was satisfied with her though because she was so good with the family.

When she passed away, I said our next dog hunts or two go out, and one comes back! Well we did some research first on what breed we wanted, then started to research the kennels that bred that dog. We decided a weimaraner was the dog for us, and we found a fantastic breeder about a 4 or 5 hour drive from us. We now have two of his dogs and they can hunt! They point upland birds, can retrieve ducks until they puke, track game like blood hounds, and they are wonderful with our kids. And they have just the right amount of protection instict built in. They will bark and kick up a fuss if some one comes to the door, but will settle down immediately when told to come and heel. I like this because I spend alot of time on the road away from my family for work, and I pitty the poor bugger that comes to my house with evil thoughts on his mind.

So the point of my story is...spend some time researching the breeds, and then find the right breeder that will stand behind his pups. You may spend a bit more money, but you are talking about a long term commitment here and it is easy to amortize that investment over 10 to 15 years.
 
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