Good 357 and 38 special target loads

BigGameHunter

BigGameHunter

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I just purchased a Smith and Wesson Model 13-2.

Today I bought some Remington UMC 125gr 357 Magnums JSP and 130Gr. 38 Special MC.

It has a 6" bull barrel (.75in if that matters). I was wondering what loads you guys use for a 357/38 and get the best results. What do you recommend with handloading? I was told not to really shoot any super hot 357 but I would like to shoot factory 357 out of it as that is what it is meant for but mostly it will see 38 for the bulk of the target shooting. Are heavier grain better or lower grain?

Also is it ok to alternate say 3 357 loads and 3 38s in the same cylinder when I am testing it just to get a feel for how each one recoils and shoots?

Thanks. I have a 9mm right now that I shoot mostly but I figured this was a step up in power and with the longer barrel accuracy so it should be fun to test out the wheel gun. :)
 
I have never used jacketed bullets in .38 Special. I have successfully used 3.8 grains of Titegroup or 4.0 grains of AA#2 behind a 158 grain SWC.

The classic target load is 2.7 grains of Bullseye and a 148 grain wadcutter.

With .357 K Frames, I would stick to the heavier bullets, as barrel cracking is most commonly seen in guns used with high quantities of 125 grain ammunition. There is no reason that loading .38 and .357 into the gun simultaneously would hurt it.
 
I shoot my 357s with the cast lead 158 gr bullet. A medium speed powder like IMR7625 meters well and is bulky enough to make a double charge obvious.

For accuracy and plinking I load 5.0 to 5.5 gr. Find out what you gun likes and what load will make it shoot to point of aim. The 13 has fixed sights, I think.

For a bigger bang, I load 6 to 7 grains under the 158.
 
Why not jacketed bullets? So you think once I am done shooting these loads I should get something like 150+ grain bullets? Like I said I just want to try it with 357 and keep some around but most of the shooting will be with 38. I just really enjoy shooting a 357 as it is pretty powerful conpared to 38 and 9mm. Like how many lower grain bullets does it take before barells start to do that? Thousands?

Mine has a target rib with fully adjustable sights and a 6" barrel. I made another post with an image of it but I just took some better ones myself so when I am at my computer next I will post one. Thanks
 
Your revolver is designed for the 148 grain hollow based wadcutter load, as noted, powered by a very small charge of fast burning powder (2.8-3.1 grains of W231 for example) depending on who built the gun, and the exact type of competition it was designed for it may have a very smooth, and very light double action trigger. This may mean it is designed to have enough energy to ignite 1 brand of primer reliably. Revolvers of this type are designed to place shot after shot into an inch or less at 50 yards. To get this type of accuracy, one common trick gunsmiths use is to reset the barrel cylinder gap from 4-6 thousandths of an inch to 2-3 thousandths. This means there's really not much room for fouling before the cylinder starts to drag, this puts more stress on the finely timed cylinder lock up which can lead to wear and an out of time cylinder. This revolver was turned from a duty 'blaster' into a scalpel, using it to shoot high power loads will accelerate the wear in the same way that opening corrigated cardboard boxes would dull a scalpel.
 
Although the frame and cylinder is rated for magnums the add on barrel may not be. I'd check it to be sure it says .357Mag on it. When guns are converted to PPC or full on bullseye shooters like your gun they really aren't intended to be shot with magnum rounds anymore. The barrel may not be rated for magnum pressures.

Also there's no doubt that the barrel will be set with the rifling spiral to work best with the classic 148gn wadcutter loads and may not be as good a performer with other loads.
 
tjhaile said:
I have never used jacketed bullets in .38 Special. I have successfully used 3.8 grains of Titegroup or 4.0 grains of AA#2 behind a 158 grain SWC.

The classic target load is 2.7 grains of Bullseye and a 148 grain wadcutter.

With .357 K Frames, I would stick to the heavier bullets, as barrel cracking is most commonly seen in guns used with high quantities of 125 grain ammunition. There is no reason that loading .38 and .357 into the gun simultaneously would hurt it.
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same i load 3.8 grains of TG behind a 158 grain SWC
 
Enefgee has it right. You've bought a PPC match gun, but PPC has largely disappeared in recent years. You'll get the best accuracy with .357 CASES loaded with 148 gr wadcutters and something between 2.5 and 3.0 grs Bullseye, alternatively 231 is a bit cleaner (less fouling) but needs 3.2 grs for the same velocity and accuracy. It likely would not hurt the gun to fire a few (less than 20) full 357 rounds, but bear in mind that a bowmar or similar rib is only attached by 6-40 screws and lots of 357 can end up with the rib planted in your forhead. Use common sense.
And have fun.
Dr J
 
BigGameHunter said:
I just purchased a Smith and Wesson Model 13-2.

Today I bought some Remington UMC 125gr 357 Magnums JSP and 130Gr. 38 Special MC.

It has a 6" bull barrel (.75in if that matters). I was wondering what loads you guys use for a 357/38 and get the best results. What do you recommend with handloading? I was told not to really shoot any super hot 357 but I would like to shoot factory 357 out of it as that is what it is meant for but mostly it will see 38 for the bulk of the target shooting. Are heavier grain better or lower grain?

Also is it ok to alternate say 3 357 loads and 3 38s in the same cylinder when I am testing it just to get a feel for how each one recoils and shoots?
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If you want to shoot 357s out of any 38/357 revolver, avoid 125 grain bullets and stick to 158 grain bullets, or you will definitely see ill effects very soon, like flame-cutting and in the K-framed 13-2, the aforementioned cone cracking. S&W K-frames are beautiful guns but are part-time 357 shooters in my opinion. You can shoot 38+Ps in them all day, though. I will totally avoid any super hot 357s in your 13-2.

Lead bullets are better for the bore than jacketed. I have only shot reloads for the past 21 years and load 14 grains 2400 under 158 grain JHPs in .357 magnum. Hardly shoot mags in my 357 revolvers anyways.

Mostly I shoot 38 spl +P using home cast (from Lee TL molds) 158 grain LSWC or RN over 4.3 grains 700x or Titegroup(1,000 fps) and 125 grain Plated HPs (Rainier) over 5.1 grains Titegroup (1,150 fps), both very accurate out of my 686 and GP100. 125 - 160 grain bullets should be fine in your 13-2.

IMO, you can mix 38 and 357 in the same cylinder.

If you really want to shoot full load mags, get a GP100 and have a blast.
 
"...Why not jacketed bullets?..." Too expensive to shoot regularly.
There really isn't a .357 Mag target load. Definitely load .357 cases only. They can be loaded to .38 Special velocities with no fuss and it eliminates the lube gunk build up in the cylinders. Use a 148 grain WC for the .38 loads and a cast SWC for the .357. Bullseye is your friend for either.
"...ok to alternate say..." Your revolver won't care, but don't expect great groups. Different weight and velocity bullets won't end up together. Not really a big deal for what you're doing though.
 
My only experience with heavier cast bullets as suggested above, and accuracy is outstanding in a 357 magnum or 38 spl S&W. Personally I used W231 powder, but everyone has a different preference.
 
BCRider said:
Although the frame and cylinder is rated for magnums the add on barrel may not be. I'd check it to be sure it says .357Mag on it. When guns are converted to PPC or full on bullseye shooters like your gun they really aren't intended to be shot with magnum rounds anymore. The barrel may not be rated for magnum pressures.

Also there's no doubt that the barrel will be set with the rifling spiral to work best with the classic 148gn wadcutter loads and may not be as good a performer with other loads.
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If the barrel is safe to use, it can handle .357. You likely won't hurt anything with occasional magnum loads and mostly light .38 loads. It usually takes at least a few thousand rounds of .357 Magnum before the barrel (and sometimes the frame) cracks at the forcing cone.

I concur that a different gun would be a better choice for regular use with magnum loads.

There's nothing wrong per se with jacketed bullets, but lead ones are substantially less expensive.
 
Here is a close up pic of both of my smiths.

The gentleman I bought this gun off said I would have no problem shooting 357 out of it even full power 357 however after reading what I have I guess I will stick with 38's for the most part.

I just spent 40 bucks on a box of 357s though and I want to at least shoot that out of it is that going to be ok? I will not shoot thousands of 357 but want to know that it will at least shoot them if need be. They are just factory loads and not hot but they are 125gr. From now on I will buy heavier grain rounds if I am going to shoot mags out of it but for target especially because of price I will stick to mostly 38s.

Compared to my other revolver it looks like a friggin tank which is why I bought it and why it confuses me as to why a 357 magnum handgun can't shoot 357. I know the barrel, etc.

Please just confirm that I can at least shoot a couple 357s out of it without ill effects. Thanks.



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The forcing cone issue mentioned already changed along with the barrel since the forcing cone is part of the barrel. But it still comes back to what is the barrel rated for shooting. It is very likely that you'd be just fine. But there is that little bit of risk that the metal is heat treated in such a way as to work best with the softer loads it was intended for and that smacking it with some magnums would not be a good idea. The risk being that it would either swell out the forcing cone due to the metal being relatively soft or that it could crack the cone if the metal is too hard. Without more information on that particular barrel from that maker it's hard to say.

I'd suggest hold onto that box of mangums and keep on researching for information on that particular barrel and maker. Hit up some of the other forums that specialize more in revolvers and in PPC.

And it wouldn't hurt to post up any and all markings you find on the sight rib and barrel as an aid in finding out more info about what you have gotten and what loads it would be suitable for.
 
The barrel itself has no markings. The guy I bought it off of said (here is the quote)

"It's a Bull barrel (heavy barrel) so shooting 357 mag will not be a problem."

This is the response as before I purchased it I said I wanted it for shooting reloaded 357s. The thing is wouldn't even a tight 38 barrel be the same as a tight 357 as they are the same size and then the frame is most definately made to accomodate357 as it is a 357 magnum. I will take a picture of the forcing cone and internals for you if that will help. The forcing cone even is perfectly round which I read the original ones with the flat bottom were the reason for the problems. It looks very robust. Next post will have some glamour shots of the cone and area. Hopefully after you see them you will tell me it should be good to go as that would be a great dissappointment to be unable to enjoy 357 loads out of a 357. I already have a 9mm and a 38 isn't more powerful than a 9 so I was hoping I was at least stepping up power wise so I will keep my fingers crossed. Again no markings unless they are under the counterweight and if they are then I am sure they say its for a 357 as again the guy who sold it even said it would be ok for hot magnum loads and I just want to shoot regular magnum loads and was planning on even reloading for it as well as 357 are very expensive but in a hypothetical situation I would use a 9mm over 38 for stopping power and a 357 over all by far.
 


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Here are a bunch of resized pics that I think should help you out. I mean in all honesty I can't see a problem with enjoying a few 357s through it at all. I can see your point however about not shooting full house magnums through it exclusively but I mean it has to be able to at least shoot 357 out of it. The whole gun from the barrel to the frame appear to be built like a brick sh|t house. It doesn't look to have a weak point at all but then again I am used to automatic handguns and just learning about wheel guns. Thanks again for all of the advice!
 
For all practical purposes, the same rifled blank would be used to make a barrel used for either a .38 Special or .357 Magnum. Most carbon steel barrels are made of 4140 or similar alloy, regardless of the intended use. The weak link would be the cylinder, anyway, since this is where pressure is highest and the wall thickness is the least on a revolver.

If you want to shoot off the box of .357s you have, fill your boots.
 
That is kind of what I was thinking, its just like I said new to wheel guns. The cylinder is pretty robust as it is for a 357 and that is still stock and in great shape as I don't think this gun was used much before I got ahold of it maybe a couple hundred rounds then put away as the bluing is still very rich and shiney. What I will do then is fire off the box of 38 first and make sure everything is goign good then ease into the 357 maybe just fire half the box for now and see. Then next time I go fire the rest. I will let you guys know once I confirm it either way. Thank you.

tjhaile said:
For all practical purposes, the same rifled blank would be used to make a barrel used for either a .38 Special or .357 Magnum. Most carbon steel barrels are made of 4140 or similar alloy, regardless of the intended use. The weak link would be the cylinder, anyway, since this is where pressure is highest and the wall thickness is the least on a revolver.

If you want to shoot off the box of .357s you have, fill your boots.
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So after reading up and posting on a few different forums around the net I have come to the conclusion that I am going to mostly shoot 38 as its steady diet but that being said I am still going to try shooting 357 out of it as that is what I bought it for I just won't do it all the time. Thanks again.
 
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