Good back packing rifle?

[Scott Bear]

The OP was looking for something that would fit in a back pack so I suggested something that would take-down like a single shot 45-70 and even a 12 gauge would work.

Here in BC I've never had a problem with bears with all the time I've had in the bush doing forestry work. Seen them, been followed by them, but if you run a clean camp and make some noise when you are out in the bush you should be fine. Bear bangers worked against a black bear. I saw two grizzlies fighting on the road once and they ran off after I yelled and clapped my hands.

That being said, I do love my Marlin 1895 Guide rifle. I carry it on occasion when I know there is a bear in the area. The action is shorter than an 870 so with the same barrel length it is a bit shorter and packs a punch. I would take jacketed bullet over a lead slug any day. I can make a 3" group at 100 yards with the factory iron sights. Shooting a charging grizzly with a 30-30 would not fill me with confidence. I think you would just injure it instead of dropping it and then it could still injure you. Would I want to carry my 7lb guide rifle all day...NO. Would I trust my life to a .44 mag? I'd have to see how many sheets of plywood it would penetrate or something like that before taking it out into the bush.

A co-worker of mine took a bear defence course once. They had a 45 gallon drum on ropes that came sliding down a hill at them. They went through a number of drills trying to hit the drum before it reached them. They would try with the gun loaded with a round in the chamber. They would try with the chamber empty, chamber a round and fire. They tried facing the opposite direction, aiming and firing. It was almost impossible to hit the drum before it reached them (about 45 yards). All the while the instructor was shouting "bear, bear, bear, shoot, shoot shoot" to induce some stress. If you are looking for bear defence you need to have a gun out and ready and you need to practice under stress.

And then there is this:

http://www.magnumresearch.com/news_detail.asp?story=shoottimes03.asp

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

The OP was looking for something that would fit in a back pack so I suggested something that would take-down like a single shot 45-70 and even a 12 gauge would work.

Here in BC I've never had a problem with bears with all the time I've had in the bush doing forestry work. Seen them, been followed by them, but if you run a clean camp and make some noise when you are out in the bush you should be fine. Bear bangers worked against a black bear. I saw two grizzlies fighting on the road once and they ran off after I yelled and clapped my hands.

That being said, I do love my Marlin 1895 Guide rifle. I carry it on occasion when I know there is a bear in the area. The action is shorter than an 870 so with the same barrel length it is a bit shorter and packs a punch. I would take jacketed bullet over a lead slug any day. I can make a 3" group at 100 yards with the factory iron sights. Shooting a charging grizzly with a 30-30 would not fill me with confidence. I think you would just injure it instead of dropping it and then it could still injure you. Would I want to carry my 7lb guide rifle all day...NO. Would I trust my life to a .44 mag? I'd have to see how many sheets of plywood it would penetrate or something like that before taking it out into the bush.

A co-worker of mine took a bear defence course once. They had a 45 gallon drum on ropes that came sliding down a hill at them. They went through a number of drills trying to hit the drum before it reached them. They would try with the gun loaded with a round in the chamber. They would try with the chamber empty, chamber a round and fire. They tried facing the opposite direction, aiming and firing. It was almost impossible to hit the drum before it reached them (about 45 yards). All the while the instructor was shouting "bear, bear, bear, shoot, shoot shoot" to induce some stress. If you are looking for bear defence you need to have a gun out and ready and you need to practice under stress.

And then there is this:

http://www.magnumresearch.com/news_detail.asp?story=shoottimes03.asp

I agree with most of your post but I have to ask, why jacketed over hardcast in your 45-70. You are handloading...correct?

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

A co-worker of mine took a bear defence course once. They had a 45 gallon drum on ropes that came sliding down a hill at them. They went through a number of drills trying to hit the drum before it reached them. They would try with the gun loaded with a round in the chamber. They would try with the chamber empty, chamber a round and fire. They tried facing the opposite direction, aiming and firing. It was almost impossible to hit the drum before it reached them (about 45 yards). All the while the instructor was shouting "bear, bear, bear, shoot, shoot shoot" to induce some stress. If you are looking for bear defence you need to have a gun out and ready and you need to practice under stress.

Sounds like those students need all the help they can get.
I practice in much the same way at the gravel pit. I'll roll an empty grease drum or old 33x12.50 mud tire with corrugated plastic board in the hole, both straight on towards me and horizontally to practice running shots on deer, all at much shorter distances then 45 yards. There's not many times I cant hit at least twice when it's coming straight on, from across well,not so much... but I plan on getting better.

Like others have said, it's all practice. Muscle-memory. Rinse and repeat.
I haven't heard anyone specify .44mag for Grizzly defence yet in the thread, I think most are in agreement it's pretty light.

 

[mudgunner49]

when a bear is angry with you they are way tougher. if a big bear is pissed of at you your gona be wishing you had a bigger gun. But thats just my opinion!

I don't think they're tougher, maybe harder to hit.

I've dealt with angry (OK, more like agitated and aware) bears before and a 180 gr hard cast or JHP out of a carbine is a whole world away from a wheelgun. The last bear that I shot was on my deck and I shot it from my kitchen window. I used a 45-70 guide gun but a .357 or .30-30 would have done as well.

 

[Boomer]

I want a butt stock on any defensive long gun I carry, a Mare's Leg doesn't compare to a handgun unless you're Steve McQueen. The problem isn't hitting a stationary target at 100 yards, the problem is hitting a moving target at 20' while under stress; by the time you've made the decision to fire the range has closed to 10'. Regardless of the gun you choose to carry, the key is realistic practice on moving targets. A target that moves rapidly towards you is very difficult to hit, remember the old canned lion hunt video? Everybody, the pro included, shot behind the lion when it charged the group of hunters! This is what you should be practicing for, and if you can ace it, you'll be better prepared for the real deal. If you can't ace it, at least you'll have an idea of what to expect in a worse case scenario. Try this drill . . .

Tie a plastic pail to the rear of a vehicle on 25 yards of line. Stand at the rear of the vehicle and begin firing when the pail starts its rolling bouncing approach towards you, the way I did it was to fire the first shot at the stationary pail which was the signal for the driver to take off, besides its nice to get one hit.

 

[Can-down]

When the bucket coming at you weighs over 500 lbs and has teeth it's not going to get easier! Remaining calm while trying to get off one good shot before attempting to move laterally and reload would be a challenge!

Once a dangerous animal is charging it will be hard for most people to get solid hits with any gun. Running a bucket or barrel drill is something I've never tried and I'm sure it would be quite a humbling experience but the other side of carrying a gun in the bush is the extra confidence that it brings to the equation even if it's false confidence. Plus a warning shot is easier to do if you have a gun and with a repeater you can fire one shot and still have more shots available if the warning shot does not deter the animal.
I'd rather pack a Revolver or G20-29 etc due to the wait when hiking even though there's no denying that a long gun is more powerful and more accurate most of the time. Unfortunately most of us don't have access to handguns for this use and right now the closest thing to it would be a mare's leg. Probably not as competitive in the bucket drill but since most will miss the bucket anyways maybe the weight savings and convenience of the mare's leg and it's ability to install some confidence when facing down an animal in the bush alone is worth something.
I think most of us would rather have a mare's leg with a full tube of .44's along in addition to bear spray,bangers and bells.
I know I would feel armed with a mare's leg, but I have hiked a fair bit in bear country without a gun. I've also shot a mare's leg and know what it can and can't do....

 

[Why not?]

I don't think they're tougher, maybe harder to hit.......

With all due respect, mudgunner49, you cannot have seen very many angry or wounded bears. It is simply amazing how many good hits from heavy rifles they can absorb and stay up. Direct hits to major skeletal structure or central nervous system are needed to end the excitement. They are really not a lot different than yourself, whom can perform incredible adrenaline-charged feats when enraged.

Bears that are feeding and/or unaware of your presence, on the other hand, usually succumb to good lung shots and expire quickly. The key word here is usually. If this does not happen, because the hits are around the edges, refer to the previous paragraph.

I am friends with an RCMP officer, who shot a grizzly with two 180gr Nosler partitions from his 30-06. The bear generated no small amount of excitement, and eventually disappeared into the willows. Two days of searching never did discover the bear. Three years later, I took a board member here on his first bear hunt and he shot the bear. It made B&C, and when we dressed the bear for the meat we found the bullets. The bear had completely healed up. The hits were through one lung and one shoulder blade.

Ted

 

[caramel]

Those bears are really tough, 2 bullets of 180gr this is not a 22 lr... JP.

 

[Duckshoot]

Re pack gun

If you have nothing bigger than black bears a short 44 mag lever gun would do the trick. I lived and worked in grizzly country for 30 years and a marlin 444 with 300 grain barnes heavy jacket bullets was a deadly combination. One black bear that I had to shoot wanted to jump into my boat from a 8 foot high bank after following me back out of the bush. one of those barnes bullets drilled him stem to stern and dropped him on the spot. Out of enough black bear encounters that I lost track of them this was the only really aggressive one.
If I had to do it again I would pick a browning Blr in the stainless take down version with laminated stock in 450 marlin. That way you can put it in your pack when you want it out of site. With todays great selection of bullets like the 200 grain 30 cal partitions or the barnes tripple shocks a 300 short mag in this same gun might even be better.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

"the other side of carrying a gun in the bush is the extra confidence that it brings to the equation even if it's false confidence".


I have hiked a fair bit in bear country without a gun.

I don't know how we got so balls-deep into a bear defence thread when we started with back-packing.


I'm always out alone, and carrying a firearm, like you say, not only gives me a little extra confidence, I just enjoy any chance I get to carry a gun I love in the country I love,whether it's rambling,hunting or plinking.
Funny how many people just don't get it, so many reasons to carry firepower besides fear of bruins.

As for hiking without a gun, I have to do it probably 50% of the time!
Some of the best hikes in the province are parkland.

 

[MD]

You mean to hunt with?

Or just pack around for added weight while hiking?

To hunt I use my Husqvarna lightweight 7x57.

For hiking I don't take a gun but if I did it would be my model 94 30-30.

 

[sobo4303]

I dunno, I like my little Weatherby Carbine to pack around. Light, short and has 5 rounds of 308 anger in the magazine to allow any bruin or otherwise unfriendly predator to think twice. Lately it is not the four legged predators one has to worry about, it's the gaggle of meth heads wandering in the wilderness campgrounds. Scarey Stuff out there.

 

[Boomer]

I dunno, I like my little Weatherby Carbine to pack around. Light, short and has 5 rounds of 308 anger in the magazine to allow any bruin or otherwise unfriendly predator to think twice. Lately it is not the four legged predators one has to worry about, it's the gaggle of meth heads wandering in the wilderness campgrounds. Scarey Stuff out there.

I thought tweekers were a BC thing, I guess their range is expanding.

 

[lone-wolf]

I carry around a CZ 858 with a side folding stock and I use the Sellier & Bellot soft tip rounds.

5rds is all you need...

Sprinirfipld, Mo., March 4—James Smith, a woodsman, was eaten by wolves In the woods near Ally after fighting a desperate battle for his life. The wolves attacked him while he was alone, awaiting the return of a brother. When the latter returned he found his brother's bones. In the center of a circle of five, dead wolves, while an empty repeating rifle showed that, he had been overpowered before be could reload the weapon.

 

[mudgunner49]

With all due respect, mudgunner49, you cannot have seen very many angry or wounded bears. It is simply amazing how many good hits from heavy rifles they can absorb and stay up. Direct hits to major skeletal structure or central nervous system are needed to end the excitement. They are really not a lot different than yourself, whom can perform incredible adrenaline-charged feats when enraged.

Bears that are feeding and/or unaware of your presence, on the other hand, usually succumb to good lung shots and expire quickly. The key word here is usually. If this does not happen, because the hits are around the edges, refer to the previous paragraph.

I am friends with an RCMP officer, who shot a grizzly with two 180gr Nosler partitions from his 30-06. The bear generated no small amount of excitement, and eventually disappeared into the willows. Two days of searching never did discover the bear. Three years later, I took a board member here on his first bear hunt and he shot the bear. It made B&C, and when we dressed the bear for the meat we found the bullets. The bear had completely healed up. The hits were through one lung and one shoulder blade.

Ted

With all due respect I do, admittedly black bears, not grizzies, but even so...

So your buddy shot a previously "unexcited" bear, made 2 non-lethal hits (no critical structures - brain, heart/aorta, spine - struck), and that's your example of one??? Statistically insignificant - and while a fine general use caliber, I'm not sure the '06 should be the first choice to take after bears - don't flame me over this statement, I love the '06 and know that it's taken everything that walks, crawls or flies.

The OP asked about a rifle to carry back-packing not for bear defence. While I'm sure some might need to keep grizzies or black bears in mind when hiking, most do not.

Food thought - chew slowly...


blake

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

With all due respect I do, admittedly black bears, not grizzies, but even so...

So your buddy shot a previously "unexcited" bear, made 2 non-lethal hits (no critical structures - brain, heart/aorta, spine - struck), and that's your example of one??? Statistically insignificant - and while a fine general use caliber, I'm not sure the '06 should be the first choice to take after bears - don't flame me over this statement, I love the '06 and know that it's taken everything that walks, crawls or flies.

The OP asked about a rifle to carry back-packing not for bear defence. While I'm sure some might need to keep grizzies or black bears in mind when hiking, most do not.

Food thought - chew slowly...


blake

While I agree this thread is careening headlong into a full-blown bear defense thread, the OP mentioned it in his opening post.
Quoted by OP..."So my question is would the Mares leg be a good firearm for bear defense and to have in the bush?"

"Thought food..slowly chewed"

 

[LeJuque&Friends]

5rds is all you need...

Harsh story. I always carry 20rds of the Sellior & Bellot soft points. I also carry a few boxes for the surplus stuff just in case I feel like messing around. Normally I won't because cleaning the rifle, even after one round of the surplus stuff, is not fun. I also had the bayonet sharpened and I use it as a general purpose knife well out in the woods. (I do not use it to skin deer, way too big for that) I guess if a pack of wolves attacked me, the bayonet would be better than nothing when the magazine runs out.... If it does

I think this form turned into a bear defense s**t show because normally when you ask about getting a gun for the woods, that normally means for predator protection.

 

[mudgunner49]

While I agree this thread is careening headlong into a full-blown bear defense thread, the OP mentioned it in his opening post.
Quoted by OP..."So my question is would the Mares leg be a good firearm for bear defense and to have in the bush?"

"Thought food..slowly chewed"

Touche - point to you...

 

[Buzzballer]

So many good points on this topic! Thanks very much for every ones input. I have to be honest the mares leg was kind of a disappointment when I found out the loading procedures for removing the magazine tube and loading... Not as cool as sliding it in the side of the receiver .

But I do love how we have swung full bear defense! But very interesting to see the thoughts that a .44 mag would not be a suitable round to deal with a bear. At the end of the day, would a high powerd rifle be better suited for that roll then even a mix load of. 12ga slug, Buck, Slug, Buck.?? It would be nice to have some thing that you could keep a pocket full of ammo to do some plinking and have just incase you got lost and had to spend a few days in the woods And Shot gun rounds are heavier to carry.

Its been said time and time again the best weapon for bear defense is the one you have in your hands and can react quickly with. I am going to have to look at the overall length of the CZ 858 with the folding stock folded, in comparison to some of the guide guns mentioned here as well as the Mare's leg.

 

[archie_james_c]

Them Ontario Black Bears are ferocious man eaters I tell ya...