Good, cheap muzzleloaders?

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PAINTBALL GUY 3

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Hello all, I'm thinking about getting into the blackpowder scene but don't want to spend alot on something I may not like. (thou I dont see that happening.;)) I want something traditional, Cap and ball would be ok I guess but I would rather Flint lock. (less legal fuss the way I under stand it.) In kit form is ok, I love building things.:)

So, did I really narrow down the list with my "preferences"?:rolleyes:

Anywho, Thanks you.

Ti
 
Don't go too cheap on a flinter. A poor quality lock can cause no end of headache especially if you aren't experienced with flintlocks. Cheap out on any other part first but get a good lock.

Most of the crap at the border does not apply to flinters so you might want to look at kits from Dixie Gun Works or Track of the Wolf.
 
My personal suggestion is this, If you buy new you will be spending some coin for sure. Watch the black powder equipment exchange on here or maybe even post a wanted ad for a Lyman Trade rifle or TC flinter. You'll pick up the Lyman, cheaper and the ones I've seen or owned work great. I have seen the odd flinter go for reasonable money on the EE. I have a 30 year old Lyman flinter in .45 that was new in box when I bought it from an old fellow and it works awesome and is accurate as the dickens. I'm not sure what the locks are like on the newer Lymans, but my old one works fantastic. I know the quality on the older Lymans is certainly better. I have 4 of the darned things, 2 are 30 years old or older and 2 are new. ( one flinter and the rest are percussion)The new ones are still nice rifles but they sure aren't as well assembled as my old ones and they scrimped on the fancy stuff on the latest ones. They all shoot fantastic though. My one .54 percussion Lyman ( I bought used, very cheap) has a pitted bore that looks like a sewer pipe and I can still plant a patched round ball into the black out as far as 75 yards. Tough as a Timex watch. :) Hope this is of some help.
Al
 
If you want to purchase a new inexpensive flinter I suggest that you look at the Lyman trade rifle. They have a decent reputation and have lots of after market parts should you decide to upgrade.

There was a used T/C Hawken flinter in the EE board recently at a decent price.
 
I think in some ways you might be wise to start with a percussion gun. Since one of your criteria is inexpensive, that sets off warning bells in my mind when it comes to flint locks. A lock by itself which does not cost over $100 is not worth looking at while almost any percussion lock will work. I would stay away from Spanish guns because they have a drum that screws most of the way through the barrel resulting in a long flash channel that is prone to fouling. That goes quadruple for spanish flintlocks

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks to all for you help so far.:)

Ya, I was kinda rethinking last night that percussion may be better for what I want to do. And Percussion models seem to cost less then there Flint lock counterpart.

I'm really liking the Lyman Great Plains rifle. It's long and very nice to look at...........;)

http://www.lebaron.ca/pdf_files_fall09/hunting/lyman_guns.pdf


Anyone know if these can be had in kit form?

Thanks you.

Ti
 
Lymans are a nice rifle and I think that they sell kits of most of their guns. Would be a good choice.

A canadian supplier can probably be found but I tracked this down in a few seconds:
ht tp://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1764.html
Good outfit to deal with and importing muzzleloaders isn't too difficult yet.
 
WSS sells Lyman rifles. The Great plians rifle weighs in at 9 lbs with a 32" barrel, the Trade rifle 28" at 8lbs, and the Deerstalker with a a 24" barrel at 7lbs. I have owned the Deerstalker, currantly have a Trade and have used a Great plains too. For hunting the Deerstalker is hard to beat, and I miss mine after a long day, but my .54 Trade rifle is what I use almost all the time now. I didn't like the weight or the extra long barrel of the Great plains for my type of hunting.
 
vagrantviking said:
Lymans are a nice rifle and I think that they sell kits of most of their guns. Would be a good choice.

A canadian supplier can probably be found but I tracked this down in a few seconds:
ht tp://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1764.html
Good outfit to deal with and importing muzzleloaders isn't too difficult yet.
Click to expand...


^^^^^^^ Hey, that's a pretty good deal.:) Thanks man.

Now, You say "importing muzzleloaders isn't too difficult yet." I know it can cost something like $200 + to import firearms, but that doesn't apply to muzzleloaders?


snowshoe said:
WSS sells Lyman rifles. The Great plians rifle weighs in at 9 lbs with a 32" barrel, the Trade rifle 28" at 8lbs, and the Deerstalker with a a 24" barrel at 7lbs. I have owned the Deerstalker, currantly have a Trade and have used a Great plains too. For hunting the Deerstalker is hard to beat, and I miss mine after a long day, but my .54 Trade rifle is what I use almost all the time now. I didn't like the weight or the extra long barrel of the Great plains for my type of hunting.
Click to expand...

May I ask what "WSS" is. Also, how do you like the Great plians rifle for simpel target shooting or (dare I say) plinking?

Thanks you.

Ti
 
The American side does not consider muzzleloaders to be firearms. If its a flinter the Canadian side doesn't either and you can just get it mailed to you. No paperwork of any sort needed.

With a percussion the Americans don't care but the Canadian side does and you need to register it. I can't remember if a kit counts as a gun or not... You might be able to get it sent up and not have to register it until its put together. I'm sure someone here can remind us of the particulars...

Just a quick thought, the Great Plains has rifling in the 1-60 range and is meant for round balls. If you are looking to shoot mini or maxi type bullets a faster 1-30 or 1-48 twist will work way better.

WSS = Whole Sale Sports
 
The Great Plains rifle is good for shooting from a bench, but I much prefer my Trade rifle for off hand. I shoot nothing but patched round balls from my .54. Casting my own balls and making my own patch lube keeps the cost of target shooting way down. I have even taken them out for gopher shooting. The more you shoot the better you get. I even picked up a used Safari Arms Hawkin in .45 just for gophers and targets.
 
snowshoe said:
The Great Plains rifle is good for shooting from a bench, but I much prefer my Trade rifle for off hand. I shoot nothing but patched round balls from my .54. Casting my own balls and making my own patch lube keeps the cost of target shooting way down. I have even taken them out for gopher shooting. The more you shoot the better you get. I even picked up a used Safari Arms Hawkin in .45 just for gophers and targets.
Click to expand...

Oh man, that sounds like alot of fun. Varmint control the old way.:rockOn: Thanks Snowshoe.:)


Vagrantviking - Intresting. So is there an import cost for Cap & Ball rifles?

I'm stuck on wether I should go with the Flinter or C&B.

And I think I'd want to go with something that shoot's round balls because thay cost less, right? And I hear hunting with round ball is no porblamo. :)


Thanks you.

Ti
 
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some good info posted already PG3.Just to add a 'lil,yes,prb is cheaper to shoot if you're buying your bullets,but if you cast your own the difference in cost is not alot between prb and conicals.Lead is dirt cheap and often free for the taking,beware that wheel weight lead is not pure lead though.It's harder and some guns won't shoot it well for a host of reasons,as well as it won't expand as well on game.Heavier conicals also require heavier powder charges so again the cost of powder increases by anywhere from 30- 50% vs. shooting prb in some cases to acheive the same accuracy/velocity etc.?

Don't think you could go wrong with a Lyman GPR in .54,either cap or flint.Solid reputation and slower round ball twist,with a fair bit more downrange energy than a .50cal.>50s,even with prb will cleanly take deer size game,but a .54 is something to consider if bigger game might be a possibility.(Quebec moose?)Be aware that the Lyman GP Hunter is a different animal than the GPR and has a faster twist,1:48 I beleive?The 1:48 is also standard on TC Hawkens,both flint and cappers,and is considered to be something of a compromise twist that can stabilise both PRB and conicals adequately.Stay away from faster twists like 1:32 and faster etc. found in modern in-lines and some repro guns,they're designed to stabilise sabots.
 
I'm liking what I'm hearing guy's.:) I may get into casting later on, but I think I'd go with .50 cal because balls seem to be more common or easyer to find.


So on a flinter, how long usually do the flints last?
 
Depending on the praticular lock and the particular flint you get 10 or 12 shots to 50 or a 100. All depends.

Its part of the learning curve to learn about mounting and knapping your flints and what it looks like when they are toast. Stick with knapped flint rather than the saw cut agate stuff. Should be under $2 a piece last I looked. In comparison caps are now running about $6 per 100.

Regular importing costs apply when buying guns from the US. Duty, GST, handling, etc.
 
Just picked up a Lyman on the EE from goldidug, .50 percussion trade rifle. It's a bit overwhelming right now, mostly worried about a source for caps, powder and bullets. Eventually I will cast my own but not going to be shooting enough to worry about it.
Where in the EE can I watch for things like powder measures and bullets? Or where is a cheap source I can order from online?
 
Hmm, intresting. Well it looks to me like a flinter may not be as "user friendly" as a cap & ball would.

So I'v read I bit more and this is my run down of the two...

A Flint Lock needs 1.Flint (a good piece and placement to work well) 2. priming power 3. propellant, ball and patch.

Vs.

A C&B needs 1. Caps 2. propellant, ball and patch.

So C&B takes less time to set up between shots, less stuff to carry around and is more dependable.

I'm going to post in the Canadian Firearms Discussion and ask if anyones found the GP rifle in kit form in Canada.

Thanks guys.:)

Ti
 
I have a Lyman Deerstalker flintlock rifle. Haven't shot it yet, but I got it for a very good price from a sponsor of this site (Ellwood Epps).

To put it in simple terms, the price on my brand new Deerstalker came out to less WITH tax & shipping than the LeBaron price BEFORE taxes, lol! I was really happy with that and it's a nice rifle. I really like the modernized features of it (shorter barrel, modern-style butt and no shiny parts on the blued version). Now I'm waiting for spring to go & blast a few rounds from it at an outdoor range.

;)


Edit: Check this out... Epps currently has a used stainless Deerstalker (percussion cap version) for $299. Can't do better than that for a truly practical muzzleloader. http://www.ellwoodepps.com/used_MUZZLELOADER_page2.asp

deerstalker_stainless.gif


:)
 
^^^^^ HA! Dude, that things blingy. Looks like it belongs to a 1800 century gangsta.:rolleyes: Your right thou, good price.


Snowshoe - Ah, I totally missed that when I looked around on their site. (didn't see the black powder section.:redface:)


Ok, so now I have another question. I'm seeing some pistols that are single shot Flinters or C&B. Would these be restricted? Man that would be so awsome if that weren't the case.;)


Thanks you.

Ti
 
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