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sealevel

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this has been re chambered to 45-70 they shot reduced loads in it. i am not interested in doing that.
 
I would be very careful with that action, That action looks like it is a cast action, civil war surplus .That little nub just forward of the action in the picture ,is it a plunger style extractor?
They re did a lot of them in 38rf and 44rf They are designed for blackpowder low pressure loads.
There was a shooter injured at the last Quigley shoot they had a cast frame Ballard.

I will check my Frank De Haas book and see what they say.

copied from the ASSRA forum
allard Action Blow-up at the Quigley
Jun 18th, 2012 at 3:14pm
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I'm going to throw another cup of gasoline on the old cast frame ballard discussion. It probably should carry forward to similar conversations such as the recent H&A large action cast frame discussion.

This week, I was at the Quigley shoot in Montana. During the match, a woman was seriously injured when a cast frame ballard rebarrelled to .40-65 and shot with smokeless powder came apart in her hands. She will likely retain all her fingers following reconstructive surgery, and will regain some use of the left hand. A chest wound and shrapnel in her face is further damage. Luckily, her eyes will be okay. Fortunately, no adjacent shooters were injured and medical response was available within seconds; two doctors were on the line in the same relay with her and EMT's and an ambulance were also there within a few hundred feet.

I want to re-iterate what I have said a couple of times before. There is absolutely no reason to use an action that is weaker than the normal or probable capability of the cartridge it is loaded for. Cast frame ballards are for rimfire .22's. With the relatively low cost of stronger actions, why in the world would you chamber one of these actions for a large case centerfire? Regardless of your own loading practices; someone in the future can, and probably will, load it inappropriately. You may be smart enough to use reduced loads, but there's always some less skilled or more ignorant that won't.

The load this came apart with was .40-65 case, AA 5744 powder, about 20 or 22 grain load. Considered a blackpowder equivalent load by many, but obviously too much for this gun. In retrospect, I bet a nice high wall action for a few hundered dollars more would seem a huge bargain compared to medical bills, rehab, and a lifetime of disability.
 
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From what i can see the wood looks nice but if you are building something and money is no object, new wood is available. I did a Ballard #3 Gallery in a 22rf and ordered new wood and buttplate from Treebone Carving.

What mfg of barrel are you going with?
 
cdnrokon said:
From what i can see the wood looks nice but if you are building something and money is no object, new wood is available. I did a Ballard #3 Gallery in a 22rf and ordered new wood and buttplate from Treebone Carving.

What mfg of barrel are you going with?
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don`t really care i have not started looking. i would like to get a liner from track of the wolf but its a no go.
 
this has been re chambered to 45-70 they shot reduced loads in it. i am not interested in doing that.

Yikes!

yup even black in a 45-70 could be to much. 32-40 or 38-55 loaded with black is what i am after .

Yikes!

cdnrokon is spot on.

Regards,
Powderman
 
looking at the picture of the action, it appears to be round edge, I believe that what you have is the Kentucky Ballard
On the right side of the frame should have markings
Ballard`s patent Nov.5,1861 and on the left
Ball & Williams
Worcester,Mass
 
I would check to see what max pressure the 44 rf made back in the day and compare it to the target loads of the 38/55 with black powder only.It is not that the modern steel of the new chrome moly barrel will contain the pressure it is the breach block ,firing pin, and linkage and lever pin from 1861 that will give and then you will have a problem fast.

I have seen it first hand at a silhouette match in Kenora Ontario approx 12 yrs ago.I was standing back from the line about 30ft when a guys rifle explodes on the line,the guy standing next to him got the brunt of the action pieces, the shooter had metal in his hand as well as forehead .Both eyes looked bloodshot with the concussion.
The guy standing next to him dropped as he was hit in the neck with a piece of action, just missing the main vein. To make things worse the guy was not from Canada and was up for the match from Minnesota.
I had a piece of metal whizz past my leg at 30 ft away.

check the pressure max load and compare.
Ron Smith might be the guy to call for a barrel and more detailed evaluation of the strength of the action.
 
A beautiful Marlin Ballard popped up on the Gun Dealer website a couple weeks back. Very nice condition, 28 inch octagon with deluxe wood and tang sight in .38/55 calibre. Priced at $1299. I missed it along with quite a few others. Not familiar with pricing on these but that had to be a super deal. Anyone else see it there?
 
sealevel said:
kind of curios powderman why you say yikes to a 36-55 loaded with black . their will be 3/8 of an inch of barrel around the chamber . plus the receaver
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Not a lot of difference in BP pressures between a 45-70 and 38-55, at least not enough to make me comfortable using either in an original Ballard...I would in one of the new Cody Wy. built modern ones but not the old ones.

If I were setting one up for use I would chamber for a Pistol cartridge and still use BP.

Mike, I visited the Cody factory when they were still in business ( prob. 2006) and handled a few they had on offer in the storefront, the least expensive they had was $3,500 U.S. without sights yet, I think the most expensive "off the wall" model was in the neighborhood of $7,500.
 
sealevel said:
yup even black in a 45-70 could be to much. 32-40 or 38-55 loaded with black is what i am after .
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Oy vey!

Get someone to take lots of pictures of your facial structure, so the Doc has something to work with. Not joking.

Build a really nice accurate .22 rimfire out of the Ballard. Buy something strong and suitable, for your intended purpose, because the Ballard isn't it.

Like cdnrokon says, it's not the barrel that will be the problem, it's the action itself, not an inherently strong one to begin with, and over a 100 years old.

Cheers
Trev
 
The pre Marlin Ballards were all made with cast action and the largest ctgs they were made for were low pressure like 44, 46 and 56-50 RF.
The Marlin Ballards made for powerful ctgs like 40-90 and 45-100 Ballard used forged receivers.
Even so the Marlin forged receivers are listed as comparable in strength to the trap door Springfield.
The only thing that gets stronger with age is cheese.
 
38-55 isn't that much lower pressure than 45-70. I wouldn't use this rifle as a basis for anything bigger than 22 rimfire. Gambling is only worthwhile if there's going to be some chance of a big payoff, and I don't see any big payoff here.
 
You can buy a modern made Ballard and shoot full power loads in it. Why take a chance that someone might chamber a warm 45-70 load in a weak action? Shiloh voids their warranty if you use anything other than factory smokeless ammo in their rifles chambered in 45-70, 30-40 Gov't, etc. That precludes smokeless in long cases like the 45-90, 45-110 and 45-120, etc.

The Quigley match folks are having a hard look at allowing anything but BP in their event. They've had a few blow-ups in rifles using smokeless and duplex loads. No good way to police everyone's ammo and you can't trust people to do the 'right thing'.

Think about it .... did 'Matthew Quigley' use smokeless powder in his rifle? That's what's good about BPCR Silhouette - 100% BP - no exceptions except for BP substitutes.
 
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