Good quality production muzzleloaders ?

sunray said:
"...expected of Lyman..." That's how Lyman keeps their prices down. It's a case of getting what you pay for, just like anything else.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. I still have to ask why Lyman produced better stocks when prices were lower. The prices keep going up (like with everything), yet Lyman is increasingly producing poor quality on their gun stocks.
 
There are some good deals on used Invest Arm guns showing up from time to time. Often the brand is labelled Safari Arms, or Churchill. These are usually better quality guns from the Invest Arm lineup, and go for much less than the Lyman stamped models. Lyman seems to draw higher prices for the lower quality models.?? name recognition I suppose. The TC line of sidelocks has been discontinued, but these are very good guns when you find one that is looked after. The TC prices are high now, but they don't seem to sell fast. Those priced sensibly go quick.
Pedersoli is almost always expensive, and of very nice quality. Good deals are still there if you watch for them. With any used guns get good photos of the bore.! some are pristine, and some are crap. I learned this the hard way. It did save me from buying a sweet 50 cal double Pedersoli that has what looks like hammer marks on 1 barrel end.
Pete
 
petew said:
There are some good deals on used Invest Arm guns showing up from time to time. Often the brand is labelled Safari Arms, or Churchill. These are usually better quality guns from the Invest Arm lineup, and go for much less than the Lyman stamped models. Lyman seems to draw higher prices for the lower quality models.?? name recognition I suppose. The TC line of sidelocks has been discontinued, but these are very good guns when you find one that is looked after. The TC prices are high now, but they don't seem to sell fast. Those priced sensibly go quick.
Pedersoli is almost always expensive, and of very nice quality. Good deals are still there if you watch for them. With any used guns get good photos of the bore.! some are pristine, and some are crap. I learned this the hard way. It did save me from buying a sweet 50 cal double Pedersoli that has what looks like hammer marks on 1 barrel end.
Pete
Click to expand...

Ok then I'll look into Safari Arms. There are a few TC Hawken's for sale on the EE. One of them interests me. Seems to be well cared for in excellent shape for $400.

TC has lots of aftermarket support. Track of the Wolf sells locks, triggers, stocks, and Green Mountain drop-in barrels 1-70" twist. Is it a hassle to import muzzleloading gun parts from USA to Canada ?

I thought of asking sellers for a 2 day inspection when the muzzleloader arrives at my door. If I'm not happy with it's condition then it's returned at my cost shipping. If the seller does not approve, move on.
 
Have you placed you own want to buy add?? Often there are Ml's available that are not advertised. Traditions also has ML's cheap. Check out Wholesale and Cabellas. You won't get fancy wood, but they do shoot well.
 
Haven't placed a WTB ad yet. Wholesale only has a few Lyman rifles in stock They were terrible fit & finish.

I'm thinking of the Traditions Kentucky Classic .50 cal in cap lock. It has 1 in 66" twist, perfect for PRB. It does have a 2-piece stock. Also the CVA Mountain Rifle's were great shooters with 1 in 72" .50 .54 .58


Traditions Kentucky Classic .50 cal cap lock 33" barrel 1 in 66" twist



CVA Mountain Rifle 1 in 72" twist 32" barrel .50 .54 .58

 
Do not buy a traditions flint lock The stock is such that when you touch er off the top of the stock slaps your cheek. This gets quite annoying and very painful after shooting 10 or twenty rounds. The cheek slapping business has happened to everyone I know that has one, so it was not just a matter of the rifle not fitting me.
 
eaglesnester said:
Do not buy a traditions flint lock The stock is such that when you touch er off the top of the stock slaps your cheek. This gets quite annoying and very painful after shooting 10 or twenty rounds. The cheek slapping business has happened to everyone I know that has one, so it was not just a matter of the rifle not fitting me.
Click to expand...

???sorry, I don't understand??? Cheek slap usually occurs when the rifle isn't "locked in" with proper back pressure {means you're holding it incorrectly and the rifle is letting you know}. Are you standing, bench, prone? I ask because the butt stock is created for standing, it is very difficult to shoot this type of stock comfortably from a bench {I've never shot one prone, but that would be worse yet I would think}. It can be done, but It takes me a lot of position/repositioning before I'm comfortable off a bench with these guns. If you're not standing, a crescent butt can be a pain in the butt...bottom line. {see what I did there!?}


Laugh2
 
North Star, I have been a Lyman fan for a lot of years, built a GPR kit in the early '80's, and I really like it, much better than my T/C Renegade .54 with 1/48 twist. I wonder if a compromise for you might be to buy an older used rifle, and budget to rebarrel it with a Green Mountain, or similar. Might make for the best of both worlds. OTOH, I would echo what goldenlakepete said about the Pedersoli rifles. I am just working up loads with my new Gibbs, and I think it is going to be the most accurate rifle I own, although it may be a bit premature to say that....crap, I hope I haven't jinxed it!
 
Easyrider, I still like the Lyman's. Just wished they would focus on fit & finish. The replacement barrels cost $300. Green Mountain does not make drop in barrels for Lyman's.

The TC's have excellent fit & finish. I'll try to find a complete TC Hawken stock, then add a GM drop in barrel 1-70" from TOW.

Pendersoli muzzleloaders are nice but at $800 for Frontier model including tax & shipping, I'd rather buy the Pendersoli rolling block .45-70 $950.
 
You better make sure the drop in barrels are actualy in stock before buying a stock.. Seems every shop is advertising them and do not actualy have them.
 
Another used one to consider (if you can find one) is a Jonathan Browning mountain rifle. They were made in the late 70s/early 80s but the quality and price were too high to compete with other muzzle loaders and they ceased production after only a few years.
 
Those were good rifles. The price sellers want for a Browning Mountain Rifle ($650+) is too high to compete with new muzzleloaders such as the Lyman GPR.

I just bought a TC New Englander .50 cal in exc+ condition. Looks new. If any, fired a couple times. Price was fair. Now I need to find is some muzzleloading cleaning supplies.

Where I can find a one piece range rod for muzzleloader's ? Preferably with non-rotating handle. Most attachments are 10/32".
 
If you're going to be that picky, buy a kit. I have the GPR 54cal flint and I just checked, it has none of the defects you claimed to witness. I'd go back to WSS or Cabela's and look at a few before deciding they're all junk.

The only thing I have found on my rifle after tearing the whole thing down and inspecting it closely is the casting line on the trigger. There's a slight line that runs the length of the trigger, kind of like plastic injected moulding products always have. This tells me that Lyman's Italian producers are letting some things slip, but you have to really look to see it. For $650.00 this is a fairly small issue. Someone else mentioned that the lock wasn't the greatest, it's not bad, but not great. It does have the slightest amount of side to side play, which some might think is unacceptable.

There was also a small amount of fitting required to get the barrel on the stock, which is fine because I'd prefer to have the side locks too big. They lined up fine, they just needed a bit of filing otherwise they'd be too tight.

In total I spent $650.00 for an accurate and reliable GPR. If I had to do it all over again, I'd get the same rifle in a kit.
 
Last edited:
One problem with the TC new Englander is that a lot of them develop a crack in the wood on the side of the stock opposite the lock..I ve had a few and all the ones I had eventually developed this crack, its a common problem with them.
 
Good to know. Other TC model's such as the Renegade suffers from that problem as well. On The Muzzleloading Forum it's well documented.
Most cases were from firing almost or max charges repeatedly, especially with conical bullets and over tightening the lock screw. My New Englander has a synthetic stock so it will never crack.
Not pretty like a wood stock. On the other hand, it never needs to be refinished and quite hard to scratch/ding from carrying in the bush.

Now I'm trying to find a TC New Englander smoothbore or just the barrel. They only came in 12 gauge. At bottom of picture:

 
Last edited:
chasseur said:
One problem with the TC new Englander is that a lot of them develop a crack in the wood on the side of the stock opposite the lock..I ve had a few and all the ones I had eventually developed this crack, its a common problem with them.
Click to expand...

I think there is another and more common cause of the crack; when the barrel is removed the bottom back end of the barrel pivots slightly down and is a very strong lever action between the standing breach and the bottom of the stock. The problem can be prevented by hollowing out the bottom of the stock for about 3/8" at the very back of the barrel channel.

cheers mooncoon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom