Good Service Rifle ammunition?

Which should I try first for Service Rifle?

  • Ruag GP90 (63gr). Significantly less expensive.

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Lapua GB501 (69gr Scenar)

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • Federal GM223M3 (77gr Matchking)

    Votes: 7 36.8%

  • Fiocchi Exacta (77gr Matchking)

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
S

scottm

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For a 16.5" 1:7 AR (MR223).

Presently using AE 62 gr. I can get the following factory ammunition which I posted in a poll. I'm not interested in reloading right now. Eventually I'll buy a small amount of each and test at 100m, but shipping etc makes this an expensive test. For now which would you start with?

Thanks in advance.
 
Which Service Rifle matches are you shooting? The traditional 1-16, 17 and 18? The new 1-4? CQB? What is the maximum range?
What standard of accuracy are you achieving with the ammunition you are using? At 100m, say, what size of 10 round groups can you consistantly shoot? What standard are you hoping to achieve?
A SR match can use the better part of 300 rounds, 15 boxes. How can you afford not to reload?
Incidentally, the 77gr bullets were developed for use at the longer ranges (to 600y) in the US National Match course of fire. Might offer very little advantage here.
The opinions that folks might have about the brands you listed will only reflect the results achieved in their rifles.
You need to know what results will be achieved in your rifle. The only way to determine that is to actually test the various loads.
 
Honestly, the guys I've seen do very well at service rifle (if they're not using issue ammo) didn't use anything special, usually just ae 55gr. Maybe just buy a ton of that and you'll likely get twice as many trigger pulls for the same price. It seems like (perfect) practice goes a lot farther than gear. It's the positional shooting and the running that'll make or break your score. So anyhow, of your choices, I'd say the ruag.
 
Try them all and find out what your rifle likes.Then either use that OR don't worry about it and shoot whatever is availiable because in SR your bull is at least 3 minutes.If you can put the majority of 10 shots into a 6-8 inch group at 200m in standing,kneeling,sitting and prone,you are going to do fine.Otherwise I would take the money you were going to use to buy that fancy match ammo and buy some 55grain whatever and just get out there and practice everything other than shooting off a bench.There's no bench in service rifle.
 
The only downside to 55gr ammunition is that at longer ranges, it does suffer more in the wind than the others.
 
Longshot said:
Try them all and find out what your rifle likes.Then either use that OR don't worry about it and shoot whatever is availiable because in SR your bull is at least 3 minutes.If you can put the majority of 10 shots into a 6-8 inch group at 200m in standing,kneeling,sitting and prone,you are going to do fine.Otherwise I would take the money you were going to use to buy that fancy match ammo and buy some 55grain whatever and just get out there and practice everything other than shooting off a bench.There's no bench in service rifle.
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Good advice. I buy Fiocchi 223A (55gr fmj) at about $450 per 1000 and get out to a 200 yard range where the first thing I do is drag the bench out of the way.

If you're snatching your shots off the paper in the rapids, sub MOA ammo is a waste of money. I just think that on match day whether the ammunition is taking you from 7 minutes (4 shooter and 3 ammo) to 5 minutes (4 shooter and 1 ammo) or 4 minutes to 2 minutes (Longshot), match ammunition is worth it.

Testing of an MR223 in the german magazine Visier with a very good shooter and Ruag Swiss-P Target (unavailable as far as I know in Canada) obtained 11mm groups at 100m. (about .4 MOA?).

Re the poll. I have 40 rounds of GP90 and will get 40 rounds of the Federal 77gr (available locally) to test.

Thanks all for the input.
 
Don't put too much in published tests as ammo manufacturers tend to send the best guns out with them.You are using an AR so if your gun shoots 1.5-3 inch groups at 100m you are golden.The only benefit to heavier ammo is more wind bucking capability at longer ranges.A miss is still a miss with match ammo.
Once you get to a certain level of shooting where you KNOW that you can get down there and send perfect shots EVERY time you fire,then match ammo is worth it.But quite frankly there are not many folks like that shooting service rifle these days.Go to NSCC or CFSAC and look at the top 10 and those are probably about as many folks in Canada that shoot SR at that level.If you can call every shot and be right and run the same shooting routine/program EVERY time you fire whether your laying at 300m doing a deliberate or have just run 500m and are shooting your last 2 shots standing and are breathing like you just ran a marathon,then match ammo will make a difference for you.But until then buy the cheap plentiful type and practice until you can do the above and fire those perfect shots every time.
 
If DCRA/ORA can purchase and distribute IVI for their members like in the old days, I willl never ever reload again in my life.
 
The chap who won Stage 1 at NSCC last season shot handloads with 77gr Sierras. Accuracy was there, so was a bit more jump to deal with in the rapids. The individual who won the NSCC SR Championship shot "Mexican match" ammunition; ball projectiles replaced with 69 Sierras, powder charges remeasured. These shooters are competitive with any ammunition.
I shoot handloads with 69 Sierras; my equipment is capable of shooting possibles at all ranges if I do my part. I lose the points, not the rifle.
Obviously a decent rifle, decent sights and decent ammunition are desirable. You do need a sight that has repeatable adjustments. But as long as decent equipment is used, training and practice are what you should be focussing on. If there are deliberate stages, it is a given that you need to be able to shoot high scores. But the most points go down the tube in the non-prone matches,and in those involving movement.
GT's comment about IVI C77 ball is a good one. It would be good if this ammunition were available.
 
My AR 1/7 throws the Ruag like styrofoam in a gale but seems to like the HSM 50 gr 'v max', 55 gr rem umc and south african surp 55 gr, every rifle will be different
 
I can only add that I'd strongly recommend getting into hand loading ammunition. Once you are doing it, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it earlier.
Fine points have been made about more practice, and better ammunition helping the competitor.

scottm said:
If you're snatching your shots off the paper in the rapids, sub MOA ammo is a waste of money.
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Pulling ANY rounds off paper is a waste, whether they are fmj or match...
If you handload 77smk, you are effectively making match ammo for cheaper than factory 55gr. fodder. Kind of a win-win.

As a final thought, my handloads consistantly out-perform RUAG match ammo...;)
 
How exactly is hand loaded match ammunition "service conditions"? Not exactly in the spirit of the competition is it? Nothing wrong with using reliable store bought or home-made ammo rather than surplus junk but turning SR into a science is not the point IMHO. "Service" is a PC way of saying military and soldiers do not get to pick their ammo. SR is about marksmanship, fitness, weapons handling, and mindset. Just use what works.
 
diamondcutter13 said:
How exactly is hand loaded match ammunition "service conditions"? Not exactly in the spirit of the competition is it? Nothing wrong with using reliable store bought or home-made ammo rather than surplus junk but turning SR into a science is not the point IMHO. "Service" is a PC way of saying military and soldiers do not get to pick their ammo. SR is about marksmanship, fitness, weapons handling, and mindset. Just use what works.
Click to expand...

Just so I'm clear, my hand loads do not involve any more work or conditioning than regular 'hand-made ammo' -they simply out perform a lot of store bought ammo including stuff that is packaged and sold as 'match' ammunition.

Regarding your 'Spirit of Competition' remark, it could be said that IVI performs far better than most basic store bought FMJ and serving members have the benefit of being paid to train: hours of shooting and fitness, Instruction and ammunition to hone their skills...so then why the hell would you care what kind of ammunition another competitor uses?
 
We play by one set of rules but shoot against people who can who follow another set.

That said people have to shoot and IVI ammo is unavailable to the public. Why they are not selling to a market that exists I don't know.
 
IVI is the best issued ammo - I will say it is equivalent to RUAG GP90 with less fancy packaging.

Civies shooting commerical 55gr 223 is not on the same playing field with soldiers shooting IVI out of rifle with Diemaco's cold hammer forged barrel that are capable of 1MOA out of the box. Current IVI can shoot circles around all of the non-match .223 out in the commerical market.

It is a myth that civies always got better guns and ammo - the reverse is true. THere are not any commerically available non-match barrel that can keep up with Diemaco CHF barrel - maybe KAC SR15E3 which uses Colt Canada barrel blank- and SR15E3 is a 1 MOA rifle with non-match balls.
 
Serving personnel are welcome to shoot in civilian organized matches. They are free to use either issue kit, or to provide their own. Which some do. The choice is theirs. They are eligible to win prizes in the open class in which civilians shoot, and in a class closed to all but serving personnel.
Military matches are closed to civilians. Period.

Back to the OP's question about ammunition. As mentionned, if the rifle/ammunition can consistantly shoot under 3 minutes, then the combination is competitive. Availability and cost are certainly factors, particularly if the shooter is going to practice enough to become proficient.
 
I been on many army international teams that travel all over the place with the best military service shooters in the country.Sometimes we have new rifles like this year in Bisley.Mostly they are new"ish".Guess how many times I've seen a brand new or for that matter,any C7 A1 or A2 shoot a 1 inch group?ZERO.Never seen it and I doubt that I ever will.Part of becoming a good shooter is knowing the limitations of the equipment.C7's will NOT shoot 1 inch groups no matter who's behind them.Best I've ever seen was a 10 round 1.5 inch group from prone mag on the ground and that was under near still conditions.There many be the occasional fluke but it is not repeatable.I've shot lots of different 62 grainers and most shoot just fine.
As for the army having better equipment,well respectfully boss,I have to totally disagree.99% of the folks at CFSAC are shooting their rack grade C7 A1's from their units that have been used as ladders and pry bars and had BFA's screwed into the crowns.Better equipment?No way.If someone did some of the things I've seen done to military guns,to your own personal rifle,you'd buttstroke them in the face with it.
 
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