Good thing he has the increased sight radius

Well, there's no reason to believe this guy hasn't had a trigger job done to his glock. As is often noted, doing so to a GLOCK is easy.

I'm surprised this thread made it to page 2 before degrading to insults.
 
TDC said:
AS noted, it was sarcasm. So many get wrapped around the axle regarding sight radius, sights, trigger jobs, comps and pet loads. I'm not disputing that some if not most of the above can aid in achieving amazing results with boring repetition. What I'm disputing is that some of the above factors are required to make such hits. Clearly that isn't the case. And yes, I can make hits at 80 yards with my pistols, Glock 26 included. The 230 yard shot, not so good. I could comfortably put rounds on your car at 200 yards but not the door. Then again, I don't make a habit of shooting at crazy ranges with handguns.;)

TDC
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Canuck44 said:
Levi if you are suggesting that a pistol shooter wil not do better with a pistol with a decent trigger vs a crappy trigger then you know nothing about the art of the pistol. So to accuracy as it relates to load development unless of course you consider an accuracy test to be that of hitting a barn door a 25 yards. Certainly there are exceptions as demonstrated by the video. I suspect the individual has excellent eye sight and above average eye hand coordination. For those not so blessed or with a different need then load development, sight radius, trigger jobs and decent sights for the application at hand mean a heck of a lot of difference.

I know from your past posts that you only have your handguns to shoot people but for the rest of us who use our guns for other purposes than yours accuracy is important and somewhat more defined than you suggest.

I have hit clay pidgeons regularly from the pistol bays at Abbotsford to the back of the pit with my K 38 but doing it 3 out of six times from a rest does me no good in Action Shooting where targets are set from 3 - 35 yards, the timer is running and misses hurt.

For the newer members TDC is Mr. Tacticool. Reads a lot...shoots less. Have you spoken to JR at The Shooting Edge lately Levi.

Take Care

Bob
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I took the liberty of highlighting my previous post. Perhaps that will answer your question. In the event it does not, I will explain it.

The gentleman in the video indicates his Glock is 100% stock with the exception of some grip tape so the comment by another CGN member about a cheap trigger job is null and void as far as we know. As I said in the previous post. The belief that a stock pistol is incapable of more than "service" type accuracy is asinine. What's worse is the rampant belief that adding accessory X or having modification Y done to your pistol will somehow improve the SHOOTERS performance. The addition of X/Y may improve the performance of the firearm but it will not improve the performance of the shooter.

Bob, you will no doubt come up with some excuse as to why one should have X or Y as you have come up with excuses as to why the author of the video shoots so well. The simple fact is that he has mastered the fundamentals and obviously shoots a lot(who wouldn't with a personal range like that!).

I do agree that making such hits without the timer running is a lot easier and doesn't provide much if any advantage for the competitor. It does however clearly illustrate the importance of understanding and mastering the fundamentals.

TDC
 
TDC said:
The gentleman in the video indicates his Glock is 100% stock with the exception of some grip tape so the comment by another CGN member about a cheap trigger job is null and void as far as we know. As I said in the previous post. The belief that a stock pistol is incapable of more than "service" type accuracy is asinine. What's worse is the rampant belief that adding accessory X or having modification Y done to your pistol will somehow improve the SHOOTERS performance. The addition of X/Y may improve the performance of the firearm but it will not improve the performance of the shooter.

TDC you just don't get it do you. Take any shooter you want, give him a WW11 Colt 1911 with a few 100K rds through it and let him practice for a week and then let him shoot a fully tuned STI Trojan. He will shoot better with the fully tuned Trojan. His skills will be the same but his scoring will be improved.

The shooter in the video is certainly an accomplished shooter. The fact that he can hit his plate at that distance with a Glock is certainly an indication of that. Give him a fully tuned IPSC Open gun with full optics and his hits will be more consistent.



Bob, you will no doubt come up with some excuse as to why one should have X or Y as you have come up with excuses as to why the author of the video shoots so well. The simple fact is that he has mastered the fundamentals and obviously shoots a lot(who wouldn't with a personal range like that!).

It isn't excuses Levi, but like so many topics you chime in on or causes you champion your depth of knowledge is often lacking or is based upon nothing more than what you have read. Practice and instruction combined with practice will or should make you a better shooter. That said having good equipment helps and in the circumstances most of us find ourselves in with pistol in hand our equipment matters...and yes you can shoot well with basic equipment and often basic equipment is all you need until you reach a point where your scoring will improve with better equipment. Not all of us are born with the outstanding eye hand co-ordination, olympic reflexs that you have so we compensate by purchasing equipment that allows us to maximize our limited skills.

I do agree that making such hits without the timer running is a lot easier and doesn't provide much if any advantage for the competitor. It does however clearly illustrate the importance of understanding and mastering the fundamentals.

Whatever

TDC
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Take Care

Bob
 
TDC said:
So we agree that competing with a stock gun provides for an additional challenge when compared to competing with a tuned "race" gun?

TDC
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Well I am not sure what you mean by a tuned race gun. I know my CZ Shadow is a lot easier to shoot with a 13# mainspring as opposed to the stick mainspring.

My Dlask prepared Norinco 1911 is a heck of a lot easier to shoot and far more mechanically accurate than my stock Norc 1911, so too my Gunnar prepared Commander. If tuning a pistol was just a fad then it would have died out with Elvis. Guys tune Glocks with better sights and trigger kits for a reason Levi.

My STI Trojan 9MM is totaly stock and an outstanding gun. I did put a magwell on it to speed up my reloads. Time is everything in IDPA and a half second saved on a reload is money in the bank without firing a shot.

As for the chllenge....it is more difficult and given the sights on some factory guns nearly impossible to duplicate results of a cleaned up prepared pistol. I know folks in the US who have their carry guns worked on for trigger smoothness and often improved sights. Why? Because of they ever have to use them they want every advantage they can get. Improved sights and triggers often will give you that edge so if you can afford it, why not? The fact that some pistol god wins a major with a stock ###xyyy pistol means nothing for the rest of us mortals. If it doesn't to you then you truly are Tactical God as our late lemented Westicle would say.

Take Care

Bob
 
I was wondering how long it would take before this guy's videos would start to show up on CGN. I am posting on youtube all the time and I noticed when this guy's stuff started to show up earlier this year. All I can say is wow! Apparently having your own private range can have an affect on your ability to shoot a pistol :p

I wonder if he shoots all GLOCK or what? But I see now that his new video says ".45 ACP (Kobra Carry)" and "45 Colt (Marlin Cowboy)" in addition to his fav (and one of mine) the good ol' GLOCK 19.

I know what it is like shooting at the 200 metre "gong" on Range 7 at PoCo. A hit pretty much every time with those GLOCKs? That is just mind boggling.

It would be cool if he made a vid describing his technique and how he learned to make those long shoots. I suppose if he did that it would just create an opportunity for all the rugrats and airsofters to "critique" :rolleyes: him on his shooting though.
 
Despite all the bickering and comments on TDC's skills (or lack thereof), the point is obvious. Skill, talent and practice will trump a fancy gun any day. This is the same as golf (and many other sports). Duffers will spend a fortune on top level equipment instead of spending the money on practice time and professional instruction. Swapping equipment with a top pro does not mean you will be swapping finishing positions.

Oh yeah, the guy in the vid is a fantastic shooter, that is just incredible work. Wish I had a range like that, too.

Mark
 
ghostie said:
It would be cool if he made a vid describing his technique and how he learned to make those long shoots. I suppose if he did that it would just create an opportunity for all the rugrats and airsofters to "critique" :rolleyes: him on his shooting though.
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Read his comments, can't remember which video but he describes in detail his method.
 
mmattockx said:
despite all the bickering and comments on tdc's skills (or lack thereof), the point is obvious. Skill, talent and practice will trump a fancy gun any day. This is the same as golf (and many other sports). Duffers will spend a fortune on top level equipment instead of spending the money on practice time and professional instruction. Swapping equipment with a top pro does not mean you will be swapping finishing positions.

Oh yeah, the guy in the vid is a fantastic shooter, that is just incredible work. Wish i had a range like that, too.

Mark
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bingo!!
 
That isn't what TDC is saying at all. I maintain the same shooter what a certain skill level will shoot better with a a gun with decent sights and trigger. TDC was shown up by the late Westicle on his last attempt at peddling his ideas and has come back for more.

As to Golf the anology is hardly the same. The motor skills and physics in hitting a golf ball straight are far more complicated than shooting a pistol.

You are correct on the equipment although the larger steel heads on the drivers have improved even the duffers ability to hit a golf ball and that there is statistical evidence. The result for the pros has been to virtually obsolete older golf courses in their original set up ie length.

What is the same is the equipment improvements made in the firearm industry. Today you can buy, off the shelf, what at one time was considered a fully customized gun.

The fellow in the video is obviously a tremendous shot but to hold his performance up as evidence that a better equiped pistol won't aid a shooter is nonsense. Doubt it? Take a stock Norinco out against an STI Eagle, CZ Shadow or a Tanfoglio Stiock 11 and see which gun has the better mechanical accuracy. Shoot from a rest or freestyle and test it out for yourself.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
The fellow in the video is obviously a tremendous shot but to hold his performance up as evidence that a better equiped pistol won't aid a shooter is nonsense.
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Well, we are seeing it two different ways. Of course, a better equipped handgun will generally produce better results (it should, or the money spent is wasted). The point is that a skilled shooter with a stock gun will smoke an average shooter with a top level custom. The skills are more important than the equipment and the only way to improve the skills is with practice and instruction.

TDC's point was that people get far too wrapped up in having the latest/greatest/most wonderful whatever instead of spending that money practicing.

The shooter in that video is a fantastic shot and proves that the gun is far more accurate than 99% of shooters. If you want to shoot like him, better go practice, because that is how he got where he is, not by using fancy tuned guns.

Mark
 
Mark I wish it were that easy. Fact is most folks aren't blessed with super eye hand coordination or better than average eye sight. I know golfers who practice until their arms fall off and couldn't break 90 on their best day. At some point one reaches a skill that practice and instruction can't compensate for. I have a SP-01 with night sights on it. Is it great for shooting IDPA? For me no. I find it much easier and hence I perform better with FO front sights.

Equipment, in itself won't make you a better shooter but all things being equal you will shoot better with decent equipment that offsets any physical shortfalls you have. The best example is the old mil spec sights found on 1911's. Some folks with a great deal of practice may overcome the poor sight picture they afford. Put a decent set of notch & post sights found on most pistols today and the improvement in shooting is immediate.

Take Care

Bob
 
mmattockx said:
Well, we are seeing it two different ways. Of course, a better equipped handgun will generally produce better results (it should, or the money spent is wasted). The point is that a skilled shooter with a stock gun will smoke an average shooter with a top level custom. The skills are more important than the equipment and the only way to improve the skills is with practice and instruction.

TDC's point was that people get far too wrapped up in having the latest/greatest/most wonderful whatever instead of spending that money practicing.

The shooter in that video is a fantastic shot and proves that the gun is far more accurate than 99% of shooters. If you want to shoot like him, better go practice, because that is how he got where he is, not by using fancy tuned guns.

Mark
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This statement illustrates my belief.

You guys are arguing when you're both fundamentally right.

The most important thing is skill. There's no way anybody can argue with that statement. Souping up a pistol will also help, but without skill is absolutely useless.

TDC has his point of view at one end of the spectrum. He made a post with what he thought was an argument in favor of this. He's not poking anyone with a stick and has to the right to show his opinion. I find people way to quick to jump to insults in order to argue against his point with arguments of their own which are valid as well.
 
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