Good $ value sxs shotgun brands?

Back to the original post for brands and models that would be worth consideration as a first double for hunting. Without considerable knowledge and experience on pre war guns you are in deep water with these unless you are dealing with someone who is both honest and knowledgeable. Don't assume that the vendor of a fine old gun knows any more about it than you do. Ask knowledgeable double gun owners to explain how to evaluate these guns. After you have been through this with a number of owners you can figure out what is good advice and what is BS. Any reputable store will give you a three day no firing, no disassembly inspection period on a used gun to return for full refund. If a private vendor won't do this I assume that he doesn't have confidence in his gun. I just move on, I don't have confidence in it either.
For a first double for your purposes it is hard to beat a lightly used Browning BSS, Ithaca/SKB, Beretta, Bernardelli, Sauer, Merkel, Simson or BRNO/ CZ. These are all sound designs, well made, good handling, long lasting and a pleasure to use. They are all nice handling within their style ( pistol grip vs straight, splinter forend vs beavertail, short barrels vs long, etc ). They will generally last many generations of normal use and are excellent value for money. They are not too hard to find in really nice condition if you are patient. Buy one in NRA Very Good to Excellent condition, use it and enjoy it, look after it and keep it in the condition in which you buy it and you will always be able to recover your investment if your tastes change in time. Some current new guns don't yet have a track record for either reliability or residual dollar value over time, there are undoubtedly some good guns being made in places such as Turkey and others but at this point we don't really know which are really good value. There are some sturdy basic doubles that are inexpensive, they go bang just fine but feel like a 2x4 and handle like a truck axle. I doubt if you would be satisfied with one of these, especially if someone put one of the named brands in your hands. There are lots of used Spanish guns available ranging from exquisite to near junk. Most in this country are sound low to mid quality guns and thousands are well worn after 50-60 years of continual service suggesting perhaps a better gun than their reputation. Still, a risky choice unless you are very familiar with the actual maker and model and this is reflected in the prices of Spanish guns in general. Some gorgeous seductive guns here but not a great choice for a first double unless you can really be sure of the quality.
Prices and gun numbers vary a lot across the country. In south-central BC where we are such guns aren't really common it may be easier to find better prices but fewer guns to choose from. The big gun shows like Chilliwack and Kamloops are by far the best places to actually see and handle a good number of different guns, get a handle on local asking prices ( different than selling prices), maybe narrow your search and maybe even find the right gun for you. Remember that any gun you are looking at with fixed chokes was not designed for or proofed for steel shot. You may be able to use it in the more open chokes but you risk bore damage. If you must hunt ducks and geese with your pet double you really should be looking at newer guns with choke tubes. Personally I use a modern Browning autoloader designed for steel for this purpose, we all need a variety. Just like a golfer, they never go around the course with one club! Good luck, Jim
 
Thanks Jim, Great post! Very informative once again. Really appreciate you taking the time. I'm definitely hoping to be able to get to the kamloops gun show. As you mention there's almost zero SxS's to shop at local dealers and the overall shotgun market is fairly minimal. Its very frustrating not being able to handle even a stoeger uplander at a local store ha ha. I find it impossible to choose between shotguns without mounting & handling. Also as you mention steel shot I should mention for me at this point I have zero interest in that side of things. I use a current production auto for that for a variety of reasons.
 
I think I have Horshoes up my yingyang.
I have been trying to buy a nice little 20 gauge sxs for 3 years.
Finally, this fall I contacted the gentleman and I told him I was still interested.
He said he was willing to sell at his price.
But that there was only one problem.
He had another 20 gauge to sell and that if I wanted the sxs I would have to buy both.
I went over to see.
I wound up buying the 2 shotguns.
A beautiful Browning BSS 20 gauge with the pistol grip.
I have never had a gun fit me like this one.
And a Berretta BL-3 o/u in 20 gauge.
The nicest little 20 that you can imagine.
I just love both of them.
And got a big pile of grouse with them last fall
 
If Kamloops and Chilliwack gun shows are good for being able to see Side by Side shotguns, the Calgary Gun Show at the Easter weekend is stellar. There is no better place to see better quality uses shotguns in Canada.
 
Agreed, the Calgary show is the largest and most diversified show in Canada but a very expensive proposition for us BC boys. Factor in gas, restaurant meals, hotels, parking, etc and last time I went I was out of pocket nearly $1500 including my tables. I was to all intents and purposes giving away the first gun or two I sold. It can also be a very iffy 10 hour drive through the mountains that time of the year, no fun at all. I may go again if I feel the urge to buy but only knowing that the total cost is more than what I pay for the gun. J.
 
It means that english teachers have failed Canadian students. They clearly do not understand the meaning of that phrase.

The problem arises when others use their money and it's created superiority in an attempt to diminish others. In all honesty, it's what keeps me away from groups of other shooters.

Value is a midnight JBC. Definitely not high quality.

It's interesting how the good value and high quality does not apply to semi auto shotguns. In the case of these, in order to be good value, the gun has to be good quality. There is no aristocratic ties to the past with semis, even though the auto 5 has been around for 100 years plus and counting.

I'm not sure you missed any golden age. Working men are still able to hit the field, affording whatever shotgun they can afford. Let's remember that most doubles back then where plain hardware store guns that the blue collar could afford.

You're talking in circles here. What is value without some level of quality? Really, what is the difference between a semi and a sxs?

You are right, the OP asked about good value. And the guns you mentioned are often mentioned in discussions about what guns are good value.

But they aren't high quality no matter how subjective one may be. I wasn't necessarily referring to London Bests either, but it's not hard to divide post war SxS into three simple groups: Lower quality field grade guns built to hit a opening or lower price point in the NA market. Mid range guns, of higher quality of both design and production. And high end guns, well made, well embellished and with striking wood....few and far between from the post war era.

Philthy, if you feel I was picking on you specifically, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to. It's just your post and Heronfish's reply allowed a thought to crystallize that had been bothering me in this thread and others about the way we talk about guns. We have often used "high quality" or something similar when we really mean great value.

No offense taken. I am a long time guide and as such, my experience leans more towards field guns and my appreciation of quality lies within the durability and functionality of a gun. I do understand that there is an accepted terminology within the shotgun world that I generally don't adhere too just out of shear lack of knowledge. I do know enough however, to realize I shouldn't throw around around terms like "high quality" so readily.
 
Philthy, to answer your specific question, I would say that value is the relationship between cost and quality. Any gun can be a good value or a bad value. Depends on the cost. Too high and it's bad value, too low and it's great value. A Baikal for $10 is great value. A standard, used but okay condition pre war Purdey for $150,000 is really bad value.
 
You're talking in circles here. What is value without some level of quality? Really, what is the difference between a semi and a sxs?



No offense taken. I am a long time guide and as such, my experience leans more towards field guns and my appreciation of quality lies within the durability and functionality of a gun. I do understand that there is an accepted terminology within the shotgun world that I generally don't adhere too just out of shear lack of knowledge. I do know enough however, to realize I shouldn't throw around around terms like "high quality" so readily.

I apologize for the circle.
I meant to articulate that the perceived value of a semi is dictated by its ability to function while the value of a SxS is more related to craftsmanship and art.
 
If the difference in value and quality is the issue, lets look at them separately-
Value is prescribed based upon factors like - use (what it can do), fetish (a thing that is desired) or exchange (a piece of rag paper with a $5 mark on it isn't of more material value than one with $100 mark on, except that people accept its worth).
Quality (in my opinion) is about the physical elements, materials, workmanship, and utility.

The correct combination of the two make for desirability.

This thread has been great, and there has been some great comments- I again suggest to the OP, figure what you want (based upon the "qualities" and attributes that you "value") and then set about getting it for a fair price.
I'd stick with the advice from Jim and others about what is safe and practical and make a deal that you are comfortable with, don't get too lost in the weeds here!

Hope to see some of you at the Chilliwack show
 
Well the mail lady brought me my copy of "The British Boxlock Gun & Rifle" by Diggory Hadoke so into the SxS wormhole I go :). Thanks a bunch for the recommendation Jim, looks to be a wonderful book and I was lucky to recieve a pristine copy at used price which is always a nice suprise :)
 
Well the mail lady brought me my copy of "The British Boxlock Gun & Rifle" by Diggory Hadoke so into the SxS wormhole I go :). Thanks a bunch for the recommendation Jim, looks to be a wonderful book and I was lucky to recieve a pristine copy at used price which is always a nice suprise :)

You need to get his latest book fresh off the press--
Hammer Guns: In Theory and Practice Hardcover – Oct 4 2016
by Diggory Hadoke (Author)
 
Used Japanese SxS are good quality and are usually under $1000. Browning BSS, SKB, Charles Daly 500.

The Charles Daly 500 SxS in particular is an excellent gun. I had one. Chromed bores, double triggers, extractors, fixed IC/Mod with 26" barrel, 6.5 lbs in 20 ga.
 
Another vote for - Diggory Haddoke - Hammer Guns - in Theory and Practice. My wife bought this book for my Christmas present.
I got my first Birmingham hammer gun more than 50 years ago, and I am still learning about them.
A great survey of British gunsmithing innovation and development in hammer shotguns.
 
Another vote for - Diggory Haddoke - Hammer Guns - in Theory and Practice. My wife bought this book for my Christmas present.
I got my first Birmingham hammer gun more than 50 years ago, and I am still learning about them.
A great survey of British gunsmithing innovation and development in hammer shotguns.

He's also a very nice guy. Used to post regularly on Doubleguns....not so much these days. I had a PM conversation with him on some subject and in passing he asked for my address. A few weeks later his first book, Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot, showed up in my mailbox with a nice inscription. He knows a lot and additionally, in GB, is a well spoken voice for sensible gun laws.
 
If I was looking to dip a toe in the SxS market and not spend a pile of money I would be looking used on the TradeEx site. There are some Merkels and Sauers there that I think are pretty reasonably priced. And at sub-$500 sticker price you can get into them and out of them with minimal risk.
 
I understand from other posts that they're great folks at TEC but revisited the site today and every listed used sxs shotgun has condition problems. Which is fair I guess because prices are, as stated, quite reasonable.
Here's an example at higher price than most so this is one of the better ones:
Right bore very good, left bore shows some pitting in front of chamber. 28 inch barrel. Full & full. Double trigger, extractor. Front bead broken. Small crack behind action. Shows some handling marks and blue wear. Overall good to very good condition.
There are some less expensive ones of course but with multiple cracks in stock, split in fore-stock, or dent in one barrel, or pits in both barrels.
Makes me wonder in a container full of European guns where are the ones with no pitting and without cracked stocks? A crack behind the action is a symptom of an underlying problem that won't get better on its own. Maybe the hand pin is broken or the action slams against the stock because with wood shrinkage tolerances are not tight anymore. Maybe the head of the stock inside the action has fractured. Maybe the handpin or action pin holes in the stock have gone from round to oval.
Presence of pitting is a red flag to me as sign of improper maintenance.
Factor in professional action cleaning because that's going to be long overdue ($150) de-oiling/stabilizing crack and partial refinish of the stock ($250 min) and hopefully no other mechanical repairs plus cost of reaming the chokes to something useful for wing shooting ($150 x 2) and replacing the bead ($100 ?) and then maybe that asking price for a poorly maintained gun is not reflecting good value as compared to many other options to be found on EE or at LGS that cost a couple hundred more. A non-ejector is unlikely to have had high initial quality in the first place. Maybe an East Bloc production gun? Would want to research that.
I would not consider dropping $500 on any of those guns without visiting in person to assess fit, balance, what was the original quality, and getting a better handle on present condition. Re-jointing a gun that has been shot loose is $400. A full/full in condition described above would probably be ok as-is for occasional varmints or low volume ground-sluicing of grouse but you can do that $400 cheaper with a single shot.
 
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