Going Goose hunting next week. Was at the sports store today and the sales guy really didnt know much about the ammo. What is the difference between the two ? Does the 3in have more power or bb's ? Both boxes ( 2 3/4 and 3) I looked at for steel shot said 1.something weight... so does that mean the weight of steel is the same in each one so the 3in uses more power to fill the extra 1/4 inch ? Curious minds want to know.
Goose hunting. 2 3/4 vs 3in
- Thread starter 72mustang
- Start date
eastcoastsoxfan
Regular
- Location
- Bridgewater, NS
The more the weight the more BBs will be in the shell. 1 1/4oz has more than 1 1/8oz. more Bbs may give you a better pattern. As for power anything travelling 1350fps or faster in a BB will be more than enough power to kill at ranges you'll be shooting at.
Shotguns of all guages and shell lengths (this is a generalization, mind) shoot the same pellets at about the same velocity. What you get with bigger gauges, or longer shells is more pellets for denser patterns at longer ranges so hits are easier. A pellet from a 2 3/4 inch .410 is just as likely to kill a goose as a pellet of the same size from a 10 gauge. It's just harder to hit anything with a pellet from a .410 because there are so few of them.
When it was lead I had no use for 3" shells but now I use them .Heavy metal #3 is the best waterfowl load available IMO for pass shooting ducks +geese followed by Snow goose Black Cloud #2 for jumping ducks.You couldn't give me a crate of the new Kent loads.........Harold
Oddly enough I have been dropping as many geese with 2 3/4 #4 as with 3 inch BBB when they are in range. (lessers)You really need to fire some diffrent loads at a pattern board from 20-30-40 yards to see what your gun does. My gun just loves the remington 2 3/4 inch loads at 25 yards but the BB and BBB patterns are always spotty. More important then your load is waiting for the second that they are in range and shooting quick when the opportunity is there.
So.... with all being equal in weight for BB's in both lengths... what makes up the extra 1/4 inch ? More powder or is just empty space inside the shell ?
badgreenbird
Regular
- Location
- Dawson Creek, BC
If both the 3" and 2 3/4" shells list the same shot size and weight (which would be unusual) and the velocity is similar, then the extra length of the 3" is being wasted... maybe a longer wad, but no advantage. For the record, I have only 1 shotgun that is chambered for 3" and I don't hunt geese with it. I do just fine with the 2 3/4" shells.
most shells, 2 3/4 have a shorter shot string and less room for powder and or shot, steel shot takes up alot of the room, so the longer the shell, the more you can fit in, also the more that goes in the higher pressure, slower shot speed, or slower burning powder is put in and takes up more room to lower pressures and get faster fps to get longer distances or more energy into the shot for the kill, its all depending what you are shooting and how far(there is a limit).
i shot 2 3/4 bb at 1500fps, had to go in closer on a second shot to finish the goose off, it was limping away i took the shot 20 yards max, broadside, found most the bbs just in past the skin and it brought the feathers in with it.
who cares? It only matters how they shoot in your gun when it is on your shoulder. Get a few diffrent boxes of 2 3/4 BB, BBB, #2s and go shoot em at a pattern board or butchers paper. Nothing is as imporatnt as a nice pattern that shoots where you think it is suppose to. Back in the olden days cartridge catalogues had literally Hundreds and hundreds of loads for each gauge this was cause guys looked to results not #s.
I'll agree that those hevi metals are great... Just a few weeks ago I knocked down a big resident goose with #3 hevi metal from a 20 gauge in a single shot (I was teal hunting but figured #3s would give me a fighting chance if a goose came by)... Sure did.
LOL, your BBs were doing the same velocity as alot of 3 inch loads. If BBs at 1500 hundred aint enough then what is???? Geese are dinosausrs they don't die easy, as long as thier flight control systems are damged sufficiently to bring gravity into immediate play you are doing as good as you can expect.
Velocity and not pay load (weight) kills when using steel.
First steel loads were very conservative with velocities much lower than standard lead. As industry was changing and learning it became obvious that you can use smaller lighter steel pellets at higher velocities and get similar killing power due to increased energy.
That's way you see recommendations to use smaller pellet size of steel as velocity increases.
I would try to keep velocity above 1500. There are 1700 ft/sec from Remington.
And if you are good shot you can get by with 2and 3/4. Less pellets = less recoil.
smaller pellets =more pellets per load and at those high velocities steel is as deadly as lead due to fact that is not deforming as much as lead would.
I would like to try #2 for Geese and #4 for ducks of those Hyper-velocity Remington's,
First steel loads were very conservative with velocities much lower than standard lead. As industry was changing and learning it became obvious that you can use smaller lighter steel pellets at higher velocities and get similar killing power due to increased energy.
That's way you see recommendations to use smaller pellet size of steel as velocity increases.
I would try to keep velocity above 1500. There are 1700 ft/sec from Remington.
And if you are good shot you can get by with 2and 3/4. Less pellets = less recoil.
smaller pellets =more pellets per load and at those high velocities steel is as deadly as lead due to fact that is not deforming as much as lead would.
I would like to try #2 for Geese and #4 for ducks of those Hyper-velocity Remington's,
I will explain it as i understand it. its basically an equation. Your shotgun shell has two components that matter to us right now , the propellent and the projectile. Since there are limits on the material that your projectile may be made of manufactures have switched to an affordable material in steel. Now the problem with steel is that its less dense than lead. So to get the energy of the lead loads you need to make steel do one of two things , get heavier or get faster. To make it heavier you increase the size of each projectile ( taking number 4 lead and sub #2 steel). Or you increase the speed , say from 1300 fps of magnum lead loads to 1550 for a magnum steel load.
This all sounds fine , just pick a fast steel load in the appropriate sized shot and your good to go right? Kind of, the problem we now run into is preasure and pattern density ( pellet count). Basically because the steel pellet is less dense ( less weight for the same space taken up) you need to go bigger as previously mentioned. the problem with that is that they take up the same outside space (.15 inch dia for example). so now we are stuffing less pellets into our shell because we had to go to a bigger size for the same per pellet energy. To kill birds effectivley we need a good even pattern of appropriate sized pellets.
The obvious solution is to just shove more pellets in , which leads to the issue of pressure. we are now trying to jam to much stuff into our 2.5 inch space. It compresses on its self and spikes pressure. To reduce preasure we can take some of the powder out which gives more space , less pressure but less velocity as-well. As others have stated , speed kills with steel so taking velocity out is a no-no.
This leaves us with one other option , make the shell longer. this extra quater inch gives us the room to put enough shot in to get a good pattern as well as have enough powder to give us good velocity without hitting spiked pressure ( 3 inch guns i think operate at a higher SAMMI max , but im not sure of that)
so to summarize the 3 inch shell is to give enough room to have both a large enough payload of appropriate sized pellets go fast enough to carry the density and power required to kill birds quickly
This all sounds fine , just pick a fast steel load in the appropriate sized shot and your good to go right? Kind of, the problem we now run into is preasure and pattern density ( pellet count). Basically because the steel pellet is less dense ( less weight for the same space taken up) you need to go bigger as previously mentioned. the problem with that is that they take up the same outside space (.15 inch dia for example). so now we are stuffing less pellets into our shell because we had to go to a bigger size for the same per pellet energy. To kill birds effectivley we need a good even pattern of appropriate sized pellets.
The obvious solution is to just shove more pellets in , which leads to the issue of pressure. we are now trying to jam to much stuff into our 2.5 inch space. It compresses on its self and spikes pressure. To reduce preasure we can take some of the powder out which gives more space , less pressure but less velocity as-well. As others have stated , speed kills with steel so taking velocity out is a no-no.
This leaves us with one other option , make the shell longer. this extra quater inch gives us the room to put enough shot in to get a good pattern as well as have enough powder to give us good velocity without hitting spiked pressure ( 3 inch guns i think operate at a higher SAMMI max , but im not sure of that)
so to summarize the 3 inch shell is to give enough room to have both a large enough payload of appropriate sized pellets go fast enough to carry the density and power required to kill birds quickly
eastcoastsoxfan
Regular
- Location
- Bridgewater, NS
2 3/4 and 3" are both 11500psi. 3.5" is 14000psi
Op if you dont pattern your gun you wont know. More pellets in a load doesnt always mean a better pattern, higher pressures and speeds can blow patterns. Smaller amounts of shot will generally pattern better because there is less volume being consticted through the choke and less pressure, so you end up with tighter patterns. I have 1oz loads of #2s that only contain 125 pellets and I can put 112 of them in a 30" circle at 35-40 yards, more than enough for large ducks or geese.
Any pellets outside your 30" circle(fliers) are probably to sparse in density to kill, they will most likely cripple birds that you arnt aiming at.
Dont sacrifice pattern density for speed. Faster pellets lose velocity fast, at 40 yards they going pretty much the same speed as the load that started at 1400fps. Speed is good for #4 and smaller shot with more pellets to boost small pellet killing energy inside of 40 yards. 2s and bigger at low velocities will kill to 50yards if you have the pattern.
