Gopher gun advice

gentlemen, thanks for all the replies. It would seem a bolt gun is the way to go. Also, I was just looking at .17 rifles on SIR's website and they seem very well priced for a gopher rig. Was looking at the Marlin Model 917 VS-CF Bolt Action Rifle: .17 HMR. $338. is certainly affordable.

Comments on the quality of these Marlins? As I have never owned a Marlin or any rifle in .17HMR.
 
buy a CZ 452 Varmint or American in 17HMR or 17mach2(cheaper ammo) put a great scope on them and never look back
if you don't buy one now you will buy one later....
 
Camp Cook said:
In my opinion the best gopher cartridge to come along is the 17HMR... :D

Before you jump into the gopher 223 hunting rifle crowd I would consider the 17HMR...
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I agree, so I say you should buy a 17HMR AND a centerfire of your choice because the centerfire heat up too quick. You need something to shoot while its cooling down.

17HMR and .223 for me.
 
bluesclues said:
gentlemen, thanks for all the replies. It would seem a bolt gun is the way to go. Also, I was just looking at .17 rifles on SIR's website and they seem very well priced for a gopher rig. Was looking at the Marlin Model 917 VS-CF Bolt Action Rifle: .17 HMR. $338. is certainly affordable.

Comments on the quality of these Marlins? As I have never owned a Marlin or any rifle in .17HMR.
Click to expand...

I'll chime in here. I had a real nice looking Marlin .22 WMR with a beautiful laminated stock. I put on a great scope, stocked up on ammo all winter, and then gopher season finally came. I pulled the rifle out of the case, lined up on the target to zero the scope, pulled the trigger, than 'click'.

The Marlins have serious issues with the firing spring. I got the warranty replacment, but same deal. I got rid of the rifle, and now have a bad taste of Marlin rimfires because of it. However, I would suggest to you a .22 WMR for your rifle for a few reasons. The .17 HMR does not come close, not at all. I can say that, because I gave them both a real test of performance. I bought one of each, both in sporter weight model Savages. In fact, it was one of the very first .17 HMR's to be sold in town. At the range, the .17 shot very well. Better, in fact than the accuracy of the WMR. But, in the killing fields, it was a very different story. Around here, your days afield are either windy, or windier. My shots with the .17 averaged less than 100 yards. About 150 was the furthest, and 25 the closest. up close, I didn't get any of the mist. Rather, a chunk would exit the off side, up to the 75 mark. At the longer shots, I had nothing other than a dead gopher. The bullet went in, and never came out. The end result was the same, but the satisfaction wasn't there. The WMR, when hitting a gopher has always been far more impressive. Even at long range, say 150-200 yards, you would drag their guts out in a line. Also, they say a .17 bullet is better in the wind. That may be true, aside from one problem. When the .17 bullet hit dirt, the wind blew away what little cloud of dust you had. Spotting misses was impossible. The WMR kicked up enough dirt to easily see any miss. My suggestion for the WMR is simple. The ammo is cheap, no reloading. you have good range. Low noise. And the barrels don't heat up worth a darn compared to a .223 or 250.

As for the rifle, I would suggest buying a CZ 452 American or Varmint. You simply won't belive the accuracy of these rifles till you try it. I'm serious. That will set you back about $500. Then go out, and buy a real nice scope and mounts. Another $500, plus some ammo and you have your $1200 total. I promise, you'll love it. As a bonus, the other reason I like them so much is they seem far less 'formal'. A centerfire just seems to be a suit and tie event. The rimfires are the way to go for fun, all day shooting. Good luck.
 
I am very happy with my Marlin I installed a 4-12 Bushnell 3200 scope but would now prefer a little more power like a 7-21 Bushnell 3200...

25 yards results in one ragged hole for as many shots as you want to make.

50 yards is under 1/2" and I am averaging about 1" at 100 yards...

I feel that the greater magnification would give me even better 100 yard groups. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I need higher magnification now...

My buddy shoots a Savage and gets the same if not better groups than me he is using a higher power scope than I am though.
 
Your 17 is good, used one lots but won't do the 200 yard shots. Nothing beats vaporising too. The 17 blows it up, but does not really make the red cloud like the varminters do
 
Weird question in November :confused: but hey.... A CZ 452 heavy barrel in plain jane .22Lr will give you plenty of fun and cheaper than anything else. I have one and a Remmy 597 which is a POS and also a .223. Nothing, and I mean nothing beats the .22LR for all day, all week gopher shooting.

:agree: Pharaoh2 does a good write up, but I think he must be breathing pure oxygen.
 
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I disagree. 22lr has very limited range and no real damage even with the good shells. If you like the exploding factor don't do it, but yes, way cheaper.
 
My favorites: Rim Fires
(1) CZ 452 American 17 mach2 (very acurate to 125 yds & not too hard on pocket 4000 rds this past season))
(2) CZ 452 Varmit 17 HMR ( acurate to 175-200 yds HARD on POCKET)
(3) CZ 452 American Classic 22 LR cheap & acurate for close work
And if I want to reach out & touch;)
CenterFires:
(1) 17 Pee Wee BRNO ZKW 465 25gr Hdy @ 3900
(2) 20 VarTarg CZ Varmit 32 gr V-Max @ 3700 0r 40 V-Max @ 3500
(3) 223 A-Bolt Varmit 40 gr V-max @ 3300

All are well " experienced " in the Gopher patch as Landowner's in the Aneroid- Kincaid area will attest:evil:
 
for a varmint gun on a $1200 budget i would spend about $600 on a good bolt gun with a heavy barrel and $600 on the scope.
probably start with a Savage 10FP, plus however much scope i could afford with the leftover money. i wouldnt even consider a semi-auto - for that kindof money you will not find one accurate enough for varminting.
or check out the clearance room at http://www.frontiertaxidermy.com/html/clearence_room.html
there are some .223s there like the remington SPS varmint, if savage isnt your thing. $589 is a good price for an SPS varmint in .223. my varmint rig is a remington 700p but you wont get that for that price. the remington SPS is basically the exact same rifle as the (current production) 700P, but with a cheaper stock than the HS Precision alum bedding block fibreglass stock on the 700P, Sendero, etc.

i would probably still go with the Savage 10FP though in .223, with the best scope you can buy. the stock is the only weak point on this rifle - but its just as good as the one on the 700 SPS and there are a ton of aftermarket options for the Savage. you can upgrade it later on if you decide to, but the current stock it comes with is not that bad for varmint use - its very light, pillar bedded, and with a bipod you will not run into the side-side forend flex issues that are its main weakness. aftermarket stocks are widely available from something like the Choate or a laminate from Boyds or Richards Microfit.
most importantly its accurate and has a great trigger that you can adjust very easily down to a crisp 1.5lbs, and its easy/cheaper to rebarrel later on if you want to change calibers, etc. you could change to a .243 (an amazing varmint caliber, though double the ammo cost) or something if you get tired of the .223 with a new bolt face, barrel, GO guage and barrel wrench.


**edit
i notice people recommending rimfire.
if i were to go with a rimfire id go with a .17HMR, not a .22. probably a Ruger. cheaper ammo, almost as good performance as the .223. however you are going to be more limited in range.
i have a 10/22T with a VQ trigger and Bushnell Elite on it that i use as a 'loaner' when i take friends who dont have a varmint gun varminting with me (many just have something like a .30-06 700 CDL for deer, not exactly a varmint rig). youre not going to get much better than that in a .22 given the option. they are happy with it for varminting, but compared to the .223 700P its a joke in terms of killing power, accuracy, effective range. to sum it up i would not want to be using the .22. not to mention its not always a guaranteed kill, even with stingers.
in Ontario i will bet my life you will not find a place to shoot groundhogs where 'melting your barrel' is an issue, especially not a heavy barreled rifle like these. i go to the most groundhog infested areas each year and even the farmers that LIVE THERE and beat me to the early season groundhogs dont kill that many. there simply are not that many groundhogs in Ontario for this to be an issue anymore.
15-20 years ago, sure id believe it, but not now.

here is a review of the remington 700 SPS, much of it comparing it to the Savage 10FP:
http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm
 
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btw - if you find a place in Ontario where you can 'melt the barrel' off a heavy barreled 700 or 10FP from so many groundhogs, take me there and i will buy you a .22 WMR myself :)

just checked LeBarons, apparently they are having a 10% off firearms/optics/clothing/etc sale in November. if you have a LeBaron's Club card ($25 annual fee) a further 7% discount applies, so take 17% off all of their regular priced guns and scopes. definitely get the LeBaron card if you go this route as itll apply to any further ammo purchases, accessories, other guns, etc that you buy there and really adds up over a year.

so you are looking at $580 for a Savage 10FP, or $589 for a Remington VLS from Frontier Taxidermy after rebate.
top that off with the best Leupold VX-II or Bushnell Elite 4200 you can afford and you have a very nice varminting rig.

Bushnell 4200 Elite 8-32x40mm with semi target turrets, sunshade, AO is $512 this month at LeBarons.
Bushnell 4200 Elite 4-16x50mm with sunshade, AO is $530.
Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x50mm, Mil-Dot, target turrets, is $580.
Leupold VX-II 6-18x40mm with target turrets is $580.
add $25 for a good steel weaver/picatinny base like the Burris XTB or Warne, and $30-60 for some decent weaver rings.

rings, bases and tax will put you a little bit over budget but the only real compromise you can make here is to go down to a Bushnell 3200 Elite scope which is, IMO, too much of a compromise. the 4200s are way better than the 3200s optically.

since gophers are out on sunny days, IMO you dont really need the extra weight/expense of a 50mm scope. if it were my money id go with the 8x32x40mm AO 4200 for $512. both Leupold and Bushnell have service centres in Canada and full lifetime warranties.
 
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Gopher Gun

ManBearPig if you would like to take the trip out to Saskatchewan and shoot Richardson Ground Squirrels with me I will show you "Melt The BBL". The same thing can occur in Dog towns south of the boarder. You must allow cool off time with the centerfires.

We shoot 22LR simply because we are shooting to clean fields not for sport or bragging rights.

The center fire guns scare the gophers (not Ground Hogs) and you simply get less shooting.

Ground Hog hunting is simply night and day from gophers.

Also if you read my post you would find I have the odd centerfire that are used for bragging right shots.

The 22LR is also used for the price of ammo. We purchase 22 for about 1.20 a box while 17HHm is at least 15.00 or more this year.

Check your wallet after 10-15000 rounds.
 
For pure fun factor.22/250 all the way. More humane as the little buggers blow up real good. Reloading your own bullets would be a requirement though to keep costs down. Budget gopher hunting probably a good rimfire like CZ using velocitor ammo.
 
after reading all the responses so far, one thing is abundantly clear... I need to do more research. I will be honest here, I really thought that I wouldn't need to put this much thought into it!

I have learned quite alot from these 4 pages. I am leaning a certain way now but, thanks to the considerable knowledge here, the research continues.

thanks to everyone that responded... and, I will certainly want to come out to the "killing fields" west of Ontario. It would seem that Alberta/Saskatchewan is the place to be for gopher/ground hog hunting!!!
 
i guess when he said gophers, being in Ontario, i assumed groundhogs. ive never seen any ground squirrels here.
the groundhogs we hunt in Ontario are fat monsters. ive seen them survive chest shots with .22LR and crawl back into their hole leaving a blood trail, hence was recommending the .223. there is no chance they survive a .223, it blows them apart and its far more humane - they die instantly.

groundhogs are getting scarcer in Ontario. some of my friends go out and only get 3-4. there used to be days you could go out and were counting kills in the 3 digits, but nowadays honestly you are lucky if you get over 20 on a day out, and even that is if you know where to go.

ground hog:
groundhog.jpg

tn_Groundhog_0085-01.jpg


ground squirrel:
arctic-ground-squirrel2.jpg


for ground squirrel, sure id use a .22 or .17. i saw a video of a guy shooting them in the states, and the field was absolutely crawling with them like bugs. i cant think of any animal you can hunt in Ontario that is so plentiful that youd have to worry about overheating a heavy barrel.
 
^you are right, I did mean ground hogs. Also, I was interested to know what kind of shooting would be required to "melt a (heavy) barrel"? As mentioned by manbearpig above, in Ontario, there is no where that I am aware of, where there are hundreds and hundreds of ground hogs. This was one of the reasons that I originally was interested a .223.

But, the more I hear about out wests ground hog play grounds, I am quite interested in what conditions that a .223 heavy barreled savage would be the wrong choice? I am not being a smart-ass, I've just never seen anywhere where the ground hogs are so plentiful.
 
youd have to be shooting something like a sustained 3-4 animals per minute on a hot summer day to seriously overheat a modern heavy barrel, IMO. if ever i find a place like that in Ontario id be in heaven, hell ill bring a backup gun or two and switch off :)

btw dont discount the Remington 700 SPS. you get basically a 700 Police with a downgraded stock, at a savings of about $400. you can always buy that stock again later.
i honestly dont know which id pick, both the Remington and Savage have their following, and both have good and bad points. good thing is you can walk into just about any gunstore and they will have them both for you to handle, test their fit, etc.
 
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