Got some new bayonets!

[TheIndifferent1]

Just picked them up

Ross bayo - reads:
Ross Rifle Co
Quebec
Patented 1907

On the other side it has a C broad arrow then '11'
4 6/14

Berthier bayo, haven't figured out which of mine it fits yet. Anyone know what kind of metal the handle is made out of? ANd is there anything I can do to clean up the corroded sheath/hook?

Unknown British bayonet

American bayonet, not sure what it fits. It's a shorter version of the 12"-ish bayonet for my 1903 Springfield, This one's about 9".

No 5 bayonet. I like how it works!

I also have the other American bayonet as mentioned, but the picture didn't turn out. I have another American cheath which is for a 8" blade (shortest of the 3) and has USN Mk 2 stamped near the top on the front, and NORD-8114 B.M. Co. 1/3 V.P. on the back.

Now time to go put the bayonet on my No 5 and see how she fits

 

[Sigismund]

Very nice! Now you just some rifles to put them all on!

 

[TheIndifferent1]

I have rifles for most of them Someone want to help me out with my No 5 though? I can't figure out how the bayonet attaches...

And here are some pictures of the bayo for the M1903

And the small sheath

 

[cantom]

The red handled bayonet is a No 7 bayonet for the No 4 Enfield rifle or Sten Mk 5 SMG. The socket spins 180 degrees and locks, then goes on the barrel. It does not fit a Jungle Carbine.

The Enfield bayo is an India Pattern bayonet made by Ishapore.

The cutdown bayonet is for the M1 Garand. I believe so is the longer one that is the same.

You also have a Ross bayonet for the Canadian Ross Rifle.

Did you get a good deal on all of these?

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Ah yes, now I see it, the rear will fit on a No 4... but why is the front of the guard the size of the No 5 flash hider? Does a Sten have a conical front?

Is the Ishapore one for a No 1?

I paid $100 for the lot

 

[Stevo]

Nice steal then. The No7's worth more than that and I'm sure the Ross is worth even more.

IIRC, the guard on the No7 is the same as the one on the No5's bayo. They had them on hand and it ensures a lot of clearance for the bullet.

The Ishapore is for a No1.

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Cool I'll have to try it on for size on my No 4 and see how it fits.

Are the red semi-wood pattern grips correct? I see one for sale at P&S with black grips.

I feel like an idiot, I just tried it on my No 4 and now I see how it fits

 

[Claven2]

Nice haul! The Berthier bayonet has a zinc alloy handle. The shorter M1905 bayonet is modified for an M1 Garand sometime between 1943 and 1945 and was also sometimes used with the 1903A3. The longer bayonet was issued prior to 1943 for use on the early Garand and the M1903 Springfield and early 1903A3's. The longer M1905 bayonet is worth easily $200. The cut one worth about $70. The Berthier bayonet is worth about $80-100 too. The Ross bayonet is likely a $150 bayonet. Your british bayoney is an Ishapore M1907MkII for use on Indian SMLE's of the WW2 era. It's worth about $45 or so.

Hope that's helpful!

 

[Claven2]

PS: I'm jealous! I need an M1905 (either type) for a Smith Corona 1903A3 I just picked up

 

[eos]

Your Bayonet M1 was made by Union Fork & Hoe in 1943. The M1 is 10 inches with fuller and is not cut down. Cut downs usually show a clipped bowie type point or a spear point with the fuller running through it. These 10 inch bayonets are referred to as the M1905E1

Your M1905, made 1942, was manufactured by American Fork & Hoe

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Nice haul! The Berthier bayonet has a zinc alloy handle. The shorter M1905 bayonet is modified for an M1 Garand sometime between 1943 and 1945 and was also sometimes used with the 1903A3. The longer bayonet was issued prior to 1943 for use on the early Garand and the M1903 Springfield and early 1903A3's. The longer M1905 bayonet is worth easily $200. The cut one worth about $70. The Berthier bayonet is worth about $80-100 too. The Ross bayonet is likely a $150 bayonet. Your british bayoney is an Ishapore M1907MkII for use on Indian SMLE's of the WW2 era. It's worth about $45 or so.

Hope that's helpful!

Very cool! I wonder why they used a zinc alloy though. Explains the greenish tinge to it. I'm assuming the scabbard and hook portion are just cast iron as they have corroded noticibly, but the blade is still nice and shiny. The spring mechanism works well which is nice.

The short M1905 looks identical to the one for sale at P&S, the top has a bit of an edge but it doesn't look cut to me

The SMLE bayo needs a bit of work, the button doesn't move. One day when I'm feeling brave I'll try to dismantle it and see if I can free it up

 

[albayo]

Bayonets

You have a good start to a nice collection.

The long US bayonet is a Model 1942. The 1905 is different in the pommel size and they originally had wood grips. Fits the 03 Springfield and the M1 rifle. Approx Starting Price $150 +

The next US bayonet is an Model M1 if the blade is about 10" long and the fuller is 7" in length. If the fuller runs out to the tip it is a 1942 converted. The tips can be different depending on who did the conversion. Made Union Fork & Hoe. Fits the 03 Springfield and the M1 rifle. Approx Starting price around $75 +

The Ross Model 1910 with a modified tip. Fits the model M10 rifle Approx Starting Price $75 +

The bayonet with red grips is a No7 Mk1 they come with different shades of red grips, some come with black grips. It fits the No4 Mk1 and the large ring was put on the bayonet because the socket gets loose and the ring might get in the way when the rifle is being fired. Approx Starting Price $50 +

The Enfield Bayonet is a simplefied design manufactured by Rifle Factory Isahpore, It is a No1 Mk II. Approx Starting Price $25 +

The long slender bayonet is of French manufacture with Silver Alloy grips. If it is 25 1/2" overall it is a Model 1886. If it's a shorter model of 18" overall, it most likely is a Model 1886/35. Approx Starting Price $75 ++

The short scabbard could be an M8 or M8 A1. But it might also be a K-Bar scabbard, and aren't a common item.

The most expensive bayonet is the Model 1942 starting at $100 and go up to $250

The bayonet with the stuck release button, can be restored by putting WD 40, Penetrating oil, or in some cases a drop of Vinegar on it. Take a rubber mallet and whack it once in a while to try to free it up.

They are all in good condition except the No1 MkII, and I didn't get a good look at the tip of the US M1 bayonet.

I have over 400 bayonets in my collection and have had most of the common bayonets, and many rare ones. My library has over 2000 books and includes more than 30 bayonet reference books.

If you want to look up the market price go to eBay and search for them. Prices Vary according to condition.

Hope this answers some queations?

Albayo

 

[Claven2]

Very cool! I wonder why they used a zinc alloy though. Explains the greenish tinge to it. I'm assuming the scabbard and hook portion are just cast iron as they have corroded noticibly, but the blade is still nice and shiny. The spring mechanism works well which is nice.

The short M1905 looks identical to the one for sale at P&S, the top has a bit of an edge but it doesn't look cut to me

The SMLE bayo needs a bit of work, the button doesn't move. One day when I'm feeling brave I'll try to dismantle it and see if I can free it up

As another poster pointed out, the shorter US bayonet is not, in fact, a cut-down M1905E1, but rahter an M1 bayonet purpose made for the Garand. Tens of thousands (maybe more?) M1905 bayonets were also cut down to the M1 pattern. functionally both bayonets are the same except for the fuller.

The Berthier bayonets originally had brass handles, but due to wartime shortages all brass had to go to artillery shells and cartridge casings, so they switched to zinc. The sheath is probably either tin or low carbon steel. Not sure which.

To free up the SMLE bayonet, soak some WD40 into the button for a few days, then place the handle on a wooden block with a small hole drilled in it just big enough for the diameter of the button. Then use either a rubber mallet or a wooden dowel and small hammer to tap the button - that should free it up. Then re-oil it and work the button a few dozen times.

 

[Claven2]

You have a good start to a nice collection.

The long US bayonet is a Model 1942. The 1905 is different in the pommel size and they originally had wood grips. Fits the 03 Springfield and the M1 rifle. Approx Starting Price $150 +

Where did you get that nomenclature albayo? Accorting to the US TM's for the M1903 and the M1 dated 1942 and 1943 respectively, and also according to the 1903 Springfield books by Poyer and Brophy and also the M1 books by Canfield, all long bayons are M1905 pattern. Everything I have read is that the US NEVER referred to the plastic handled M1905 as the M1942.

Isn't that just something gunshow "experts" have started, much like calling a No.5Mk1 a "jungle carbine"?

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just curious if you have a source I'm missing?

 

[TheIndifferent1]

You have a good start to a nice collection.

The long US bayonet is a Model 1942. The 1905 is different in the pommel size and they originally had wood grips. Fits the 03 Springfield and the M1 rifle. Approx Starting Price $150 +

The next US bayonet is an Model M1 if the blade is about 10" long and the fuller is 7" in length. If the fuller runs out to the tip it is a 1942 converted. The tips can be different depending on who did the conversion. Made Union Fork & Hoe. Fits the 03 Springfield and the M1 rifle. Approx Starting price around $75 +

The Ross Model 1910 with a modified tip. Fits the model M10 rifle Approx Starting Price $75 +

The bayonet with red grips is a No7 Mk1 they come with different shades of red grips, some come with black grips. It fits the No4 Mk1 and the large ring was put on the bayonet because the socket gets loose and the ring might get in the way when the rifle is being fired. Approx Starting Price $50 +

The Enfield Bayonet is a simplefied design manufactured by Rifle Factory Isahpore, It is a No1 Mk II. Approx Starting Price $25 +

The long slender bayonet is of French manufacture with Silver Alloy grips. If it is 25 1/2" overall it is a Model 1886. If it's a shorter model of 18" overall, it most likely is a Model 1886/35. Approx Starting Price $75 ++

The short scabbard could be an M8 or M8 A1. But it might also be a K-Bar scabbard, and aren't a common item.

The most expensive bayonet is the Model 1942 starting at $100 and go up to $250

The bayonet with the stuck release button, can be restored by putting WD 40, Penetrating oil, or in some cases a drop of Vinegar on it. Take a rubber mallet and whack it once in a while to try to free it up.

They are all in good condition except the No1 MkII, and I didn't get a good look at the tip of the US M1 bayonet.

I have over 400 bayonets in my collection and have had most of the common bayonets, and many rare ones. My library has over 2000 books and includes more than 30 bayonet reference books.

If you want to look up the market price go to eBay and search for them. Prices Vary according to condition.

Hope this answers some queations?

Albayo

Wow, thanks for the info! I love this place!

 

[TheIndifferent1]

As another poster pointed out, the shorter US bayonet is not, in fact, a cut-down M1905E1, but rahter an M1 bayonet purpose made for the Garand. Tens of thousands (maybe more?) M1905 bayonets were also cut down to the M1 pattern. functionally both bayonets are the same except for the fuller.

The Berthier bayonets originally had brass handles, but due to wartime shortages all brass had to go to artillery shells and cartridge casings, so they switched to zinc. The sheath is probably either tin or low carbon steel. Not sure which.

To free up the SMLE bayonet, soak some WD40 into the button for a few days, then place the handle on a wooden block with a small hole drilled in it just big enough for the diameter of the button. Then use either a rubber mallet or a wooden dowel and small hammer to tap the button - that should free it up. Then re-oil it and work the button a few dozen times.

Actually, now that I look at it more closely and I know what a fuller is ( ) It is a cut down version, you were right. The fuller runs right to the tip.

Moving to zinc certainly makes sense! Very cool

 

[albayo]

Bayonets

Claven 2
Where did you get that nomenclature albayo? Accorting to the US TM's for the M1903 and the M1 dated 1942 and 1943 respectively, and also according to the 1903 Springfield books by Poyer and Brophy and also the M1 books by Canfield, all long bayons are M1905 pattern. Everything I have read is that the US NEVER referred to the plastic handled M1905 as the M1942.

Isn't that just something gunshow "experts" have started, much like calling a No.5Mk1 a "jungle carbine"?

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just curious if you have a source I'm missing

OK if you look in the book US Military Knives Bayonets and Machetes, Book III by M.H. Cole, Page 32 refers to the Bayonet Model 1942. Manufactured by 6 different manufacturers.

Kiesling Vol II #293

Also is listed in detail Hardin #136,
Manufactured By:
Oneida Ltd. - OL
Union Fork & Hoe - UFH
Pal Blade Co. - PAL
Wilde Tool - WT
American fork & Hoe - AFH
Ubion Cutlery Co. - U.C.

Also listed in Bayonets of the Remington Cartridge Period By Jerry L. Janzen Page # 115. They list the number of M1942 bayonets as over 1,500,000.

The books on guns aren't focusing on bayonets Joe Poyers book refers to the 03 Springfield bayonet as a Type 2 Model 1905 manufactured in late 1942.

If you have the book The M1 Garand: WORLD WAR II by Scott A. Duff Page 285. Also refers to the 1905 bayonet manufactured in WWII as the proper desegnation is Model 1942.

The Bayonet, A history of knife and sword bayonets 1850-1970 by Anthony Carter and John Walter. Pages 114-119

If you would like more references let me know?

Albayo (Al's Bayonets)

 

[Claven2]

Hi Al,

Thanks, I stand corrected. I'm not primarily a bayonet guy, but the rifle references I have don't seem to differentiate between the two models.

Am I correct though in assuming the only change is the bakelite grips from the wooden grips of the M1905?

I do have the Duff reference, but haven't read the relevant section yet.

 

[albayo]

Bayonets

The M1942 bayonets have some different features:
They are not as well made as the WW 1 Model 1905's.
The finish is different, and the grips are Bakalite.

I have a 4' board with the different variations of 1905, 1905/42, and 1942 bayonets. The 1905 and 1942 look the same from a distance but when you look at them closely you can see the differences.

 

[John Sukey]

Cool I'll have to try it on for size on my No 4 and see how it fits.

Are the red semi-wood pattern grips correct? I see one for sale at P&S with black grips.

I feel like an idiot, I just tried it on my No 4 and now I see how it fits

Either colour is correct for the grips.