Gotterdammerung at the Reichstag

Robbs said:
Wouldn't it be nice if this same company decided to expand their line to include the STEN Mk2, 3, and of course the beloved Mk5.
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Not if they would cost over $2000 each. I'm confident a semi-auto can be made using the SAS3 kit for under $800. Possibly WELL under $800, depending how much labor you can do yourself and how much you spend on your sten parts kit.
 
tiriaq said:
Check the section dealing with these guns in Weaver's Desperate Measures. The Mauser Sten does not have copied British markings. Mauser did the developmental work for the 3008, after finishing the production run of Stens in the late fall of 1944. The Mauser museum has one of their Stens, in essentially new condition. The story of its acquisition is interesting - a Mauser employee pilfered it, hid it and eventually turned it in after the war. The only other museum example of one of these guns is in Poland, and it was dug up. The rest of them seem to have just disappeared.
There are a small number of surviving MP3008s in various collections. Weaver was able to examine or obtain photos of some when preparing the book. A Munich auction house sold one (fully functional) not too long ago. Didn't check the price realized, but the auction estimate was 9 000 Euros. A few years ago, they also sold a VK98 and a VG1, for rather substantial amounts.
I have fired a substantial amount of handloaded 9mm ammunition in Stens, loaded with Lyman 356402U cast from wheelweights - a flat pointed truncated cone design. Worked just fine.
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Excellent information... thanks for that. Funny how back then when I was not collecting guns, the most memorable thing about my visit to the Mauser factory was that gun. I'm really glad I had the opportunity to see such a rare bird in person.
 
If one wanted to make a semi sten all you would have to do is neglect to cut the area for the selector to go into Full auto when finishing the tube.
 
tiriaq said:
Check the section dealing with these guns in Weaver's Desperate Measures. The Mauser Sten does not have copied British markings. Mauser did the developmental work for the 3008, after finishing the production run of Stens in the late fall of 1944. The Mauser museum has one of their Stens, in essentially new condition. The story of its acquisition is interesting - a Mauser employee pilfered it, hid it and eventually turned it in after the war. The only other museum example of one of these guns is in Poland, and it was dug up. The rest of them seem to have just disappeared.
snip....
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I stand corrected, my info was from the late 1950s/early 1960s Nelson/Lockhaven classic "The Worlds Submachineguns", which refers to ...."exact copies, down to inspectors markings"....

Review of the pictured "german mfg MKii sten" does in-fact appear to be a British sten, without the distinctive folded mag housing illustrated in Laidler's classic text. This may have caused the markings confusion ;)

Laidler says that the Mauser mfg mag housing has NO markings, and has the pictures to prove it. :)
 
Hey, wasn't the Reichstag just a burned-out, empty building after the "communist fire" just prior to the enabling act of 1933?

Probably not worth the loss of a single Sten gunner ;)
 
MauserMike said:
Hey, wasn't the Reichstag just a burned-out, empty building after the "communist fire" just prior to the enabling act of 1933?

Probably not worth the loss of a single Sten gunner ;)
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Stalin attached the symbol of Vitory to that building, though the Reichstag would have been a better choice by 1945.

The Building was staunchly defended by remnants of the Nordland SS and some Charlemagne Division SS. Taking the building was VERY costly on both sides and took nearly 2 days of fighting, despite it being a burnt-out hulk. Most fighting was done with SMG's and grenades, though by the end of it, the Germans had almost nothing but PanzerFausts left to fight with.

Interestingly, the strongest German units in the area, the Garrison at Spandau and the Luftwaffe infantry occupying the Zoo Flak tower, did not take part in the battle. The Spandau garrison surrendered almost without incident a day later, while the units at the Zoo Flak participated in an ill-fated breakout attempt to join with General Weidling's armies West of Berlin the next day, planned to coincide with the flight of top brass from the Reichschancellory bunker. It's thought the last operational Tiger tank of the war was lost during the action.
 
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Claven2 said:
Stalin attached the symbol of Vitory to that building, though the Reichstag would have been a better choice by 1945.

The Building was staunchly defended by remnants of the Nordland SS and some Charlemagne Division SS. Taking the building was VERY costly on both sides and took nearly 2 days of fighting, despite it being a burnt-out hulk. Most fighting was done with SMG's and grenades, though by the end of it, the Germans had almost nothing but PanzerFausts left to fight with.

Interestingly, the strongest German units in the area, the Garrison at Spandau and the Luftwaffe infantry occupying the Zoo Flak tower, did not take part in the battle. The Spandau garrison surrendered almost without incident a day later, while the units at the Zoo Flak participated in an ill-fated breakout attempt to join with General Weidling's armies West of Berlin the next day, planned to coincide with the flight of top brass from the Reichschancellory bunker. It's thought the last operational Tiger tank of the war was lost during the action.
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I have a Nazi marked paperweight that came from my grandfather, it's marked Reichstag 1946. Had it since I was a kid. Made of marble.
 
Reichskanzlei was the real seat of power and of course in close proximity to the Führerbunker. Its less than 1km to the south going by mental estimation. It was a huge building, in fact I believe the largest public building in the world at the time. (the Pentagon in the USA bigger yet?)

No doubt the Reichstag would have been an important strategic target. Its a bit difficult imagining the old city layout vs the Berlin of today. Much of the subsequent development was influenced by the presence of the Soviet sector, which occupied many formerly important areas of the city such as Potsdamer Platz which has only recently been redeveloped.
 
Coyote Ugly said:
Klunk,

Can you post a video of it at the range!
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Sure...will have to take said video though;)

According to 'Desperate measures' 10,000 of the STEN clones (Gerat Potsdam) were ordered...

The theory as to why so few exist is that most were buried in and around the Bavarian Alps for use by the WereWolf movement

One of Der Fueher's last orders was all able SS,Heer and Volksturm were to retreat to the mountains and take up a gueirilla war against the allies...In preperation for this weapons and explosives were purportedly stashed in hidden caches. Some were found but contained captured STENs captured after being dropped to the Resistance
 
Klunk said:
Sure...will have to take said video though;)

According to 'Desperate measures' 10,000 of the STEN clones (Gerat Potsdam) were ordered...

The theory as to why so few exist is that most were buried in and around the Bavarian Alps for use by the WereWolf movement

One of Der Fueher's last orders was all able SS,Heer and Volksturm were to retreat to the mountains and take up a gueirilla war against the allies...In preperation for this weapons and explosives were purportedly stashed in hidden caches. Some were found but contained captured STENs captured after being dropped to the Resistance
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That's interesting. Did any resistance actually take place after the war?
 
Klunk said:
Sure...will have to take said video though;)

According to 'Desperate measures' 10,000 of the STEN clones (Gerat Potsdam) were ordered...

The theory as to why so few exist is that most were buried in and around the Bavarian Alps for use by the WereWolf movement

One of Der Fueher's last orders was all able SS,Heer and Volksturm were to retreat to the mountains and take up a gueirilla war against the allies...In preperation for this weapons and explosives were purportedly stashed in hidden caches. Some were found but contained captured STENs captured after being dropped to the Resistance
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Yes, and Mauser got paid for their manufacture so they must still exist:)

Only having 2 existing examples of the Gerat Potsdam, 1 in as new condition, and the other a dug up example gives us continuing hope....:cool:
 
The Bavarian resistance never really happened to any wide extent.

Timeline - Hitler suicide April 30, Goebbels suicide (successor) May 1, total German capitulation May 7, 1945.
 
For the record, Hitler committed suicide on 30 April 1945. In his last testament, Hitler expelled both Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler from the Nazi Party. He surprisingly designated Dönitz his successor as Head of State (Staatsoberhaupt) and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. Significantly, Dönitz was not to become Führer. Instead, Dönitz became President (Reichspräsident), a post Hitler had abolished years earlier. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels became Head of Government and Chancellor of Germany (Reichskanzler). However, on 1 May, Goebbels committed suicide, the day after Hitler's death. Hitler believed the leaders of the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer), Air Force (Luftwaffe), and SS (Schutzstaffel) had betrayed him. So the leader of the navy became the only possible successor by default.
On 1 May, following Goebbels' suicide, Dönitz became the sole representative of the crumbling German Reich.

[/history lesson]
 
Claven2 said:
For the record, Hitler committed suicide on 30 April 1945. In his last testament, Hitler expelled both Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler from the Nazi Party. He surprisingly designated Dönitz his successor as Head of State (Staatsoberhaupt) and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. Significantly, Dönitz was not to become Führer. Instead, Dönitz became President (Reichspräsident), a post Hitler had abolished years earlier. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels became Head of Government and Chancellor of Germany (Reichskanzler). However, on 1 May, Goebbels committed suicide, the day after Hitler's death. Hitler believed the leaders of the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer), Air Force (Luftwaffe), and SS (Schutzstaffel) had betrayed him. So the leader of the navy became the only possible successor by default.
On 1 May, following Goebbels' suicide, Dönitz became the sole representative of the crumbling German Reich.

[/history lesson]
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Of course, for being the last Nazi "ruler" Donitz narrowly escaped the noose.

After all he hadn't cancelled Hitler's orders about executing captured parachutists.... though he might have been somewhat busy at the time....
 
Doenitz was convicted of conspiring to wage illegal warfare, on 2 counts. He was almost convicted of crimes against humanity for engaging in unrestricted submarine warfare until someone reminded the prosecutors that GB AND The USA had also given the same order for the pacific theaters of war. After that the charge was quietly dropped.

He served 10 years from 1946 to 1956 in prison. A light sentence for someone as high in the Nazi hierarchy.
 
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