Grains does not equal granules

Auggie Doggie said:
About 25 years ago I was in the rifle bay at my usual indoor range when a couple came in with their brand spanking new .308 Rem 700 and box of handloads. First round was a very mild "pop". They looked confused so I told them to open the action and take a look. No yellow "sand" spilling about, just a bit of a sooty case. Checked the bore. Yep, plugged. They took it out front and got it knocked out.

They came back in and tried again. Same result. I asked what load they had used. 150gr something or other with 43gr. of IMR4895. That should have worked fine. I asked if they were sure about the powder charge. Guy said yes, he watched his wife count out "the grains" and then count them a second time to be sure. Ah, I think I see the problem.

Auggie D.
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Hahaha!! That would be a tedious process.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Anyone who has reloaded a bit knows that a grain is a unit of measure. But to new people, a grain, can easily be misunderstood to mean a granule of powder. It's the kind of newbie question that is thrown regularly at reloaders by those starting out, and was thrown at me today.

I hope that people new to reloading will come forward and ask, rather than make assumptions. The error above could depending on the cartridge, and the powder, result in a seriously under loaded cartridge. Can't think of a case where it would be an overload, but there may be some.
Please ask!

Grains:

1 LB = 7000 grains.


:bangHead:
:wave:
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Thanx for posting this. As I get older, I forget the newbies no longer READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. To be fair, not many of us did. Another issue is that they don't understand the meaning of the nomenclature used to describe much of the reloading process.

Another item of REAL concern is for those that purchase NON CANISTER GRADE powders at reduced bulk prices. Ganderite makes uses these terms often. Many folks have no idea what the term "canister grade" refers to .

Higginson's used to be the main supplier of surplus, non canister grade, powders in Canada. They were and still are very careful to make sure they provide a "suggested burn rate" of a similar powder, which is usually a few grains faster than what they're selling.

I see Canada Ammo is selling bulk, non canister grade pistol powder. This is where things can get nasty quickly.

Do YOUR OWN DUE DILIGENCE when using these powders. Fast powders can get you into a lot of trouble very quickly.

Develop your own loads with care. DON'T JUST ASSUME ANYTHING unless you KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING

TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019

Liberals really like POOR people. They're making more every day.

If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest
 
diopter said:
Hard to believe.
1 gram = 15.4324grains
A 4.0 grain load of pistol powder powder mistaken for the same number of grams, would give over 61 grains, which will not fit in a 9mm. not even a dense powder like Titegroup.
61 grains of Titegroup is not something I want to be next to when it goes off.
I can't imagine the damage it would do in a 30-06.
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I have some 14 grain Titegroup loads that will bruise my shoulder after a day at the range if I shoot more than 5 or 6... I can't fathom 60 grains in a single load
 
Chilly807 said:
Grains and grams and kernels aside, one thing that's always seemed risky to me is a powder company naming their products using the same number sequence as a competitor, changing only the prefix letters.
As an example, IMR4350 vs H4350.. calling one H4351 would obviously have been out of the question, I guess? Or something that can sound very similar to a novice, like Titewad and Titegroup.
There's not much keeping a novice from making a mistake, all it takes is an unsure buyer and an inexperienced vendor.
Anyone I'm considering introducing to reloading gets the talk about "close enough" isn't really "close enough" when you're dealing with things that go bang.
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Yes, the powder makers don't make it any easier. Universal and Universal Clays is a disaster waiting to happen.

The RE-Loader series is excellent. The numbers relate to speed. Same for the VHT rifle powders.

Nobel used to have a simple system. Pistol #1, 2 & 3. Rifle #1, 2 & 3. Sort of Pistol Fast, Medium and Slow.

A gun maker in England told me about how Fred Fumble went to the powder dealer to buy a can of Rifle #1 for his 308. Dealer said "We are out of Rifle #1, but we do have Pistol #1." So Fred went home with a can of pistol powder.

You can guess how this ended...


Ever wonder why the IMR powder numbers don't seem to have any logic?

When you work in a lab you have a notebook that records every job, experiment. Each guy is assigned a block of numbers to use, in sequence, for his various projects.

Some guy started a project to develop a smokeless rifle powder for the 30-06, and his next number was 3031. Each powder number is just the project number.

If this question comes up in Trivia Pursuit, you are good to go...
 
358Rooster said:
Ganderite, I think the quotes in your signature line summarizes the entire issue here.
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Yeah, I used to read a lot of George Bernard Shaw's stuff. It didn't bother me that he ran around on London rooftops naked. He even convinced me that I wanted to be a "world betterer." It was when I found out that he gave up ### before he was 30 that I started to take a second look at his stuff. Some of it is to true.

TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019

Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more every day

If you can't vote CPC, stay home in protest
 
358Rooster said:
Agreed. Probably the same people who refer to them as "tips".

So many just don't seem to read or research anymore. It's way easier to rely on what someone else has told them. Risky business, that...
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but all the answers on you-tube :)

I have 4 or 5 reloading manuals and before I reload anything I look at the min max listings of all the manuals before coming to an informed decision.

on of my manuals is an old 1970s manual, Speer I think, it has some fairly hot loads.
 
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