Great deals to be had for budget minded precision shooters...

2bad4u2

2bad4u2

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There's been a lot of posts in this section on guys just getting into precision shooting and wanting to know what a good entry level rifle would be. We then typically hear the standard Remington vs Savage debates that are now so old they're near Biblical. Having said that, there are other alternative options.

The Howa/Weatherby Vanguard line of rifles get little mention on CGN despite being very capable performers. I'm a dyed in the wool Remington enthusiast but I've owned other brands with various degrees of satisfaction.

Wholesale Sports is blowing out there remaining stock of Weatherby rifles at incredible prices, starting as low as $339. Today, I bought a Vanguard Varmint HB in .223 Rem. for $430. It's my second purchase of a Howa/Weatherby rifle in the last (2) months. Guys, it doesn't get much cheaper than this for an entry level rifle.

Since all of my shooting is done at ranges less than 450 yds. I don't necessarily need a fast twist barrel in order to shoot expensive VLD type bullets. The Weatherby's 1:12" twist barrel may not be for some, however, it was fine for my needs. I didn't want or need a long barrel so the 22" standard tube is fine by me.

Eventually, I plan to rechamber mine in either 6x45mm or 6mm Whisper (aka: 6x35mm KAC). For the time being though, I'll shoot it as is to see what I can wring out of it in terms of accuracy.

For those who haven't seen one before, here's a pic of what I'm talking of:

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Wholesale Sports has a number of these rifles left in .223 Rem. and .308 Win. If you're looking for a decent deal to get you in the game, it's worth consideration.
 
The best deal that I am aware of for reasonably priced heavy barrel rifles, that tend to be quite accurate, is the Tikka Varmint Stainless rifles in 6.5x55 that several dealers have on sale right now. These rifles have a 1 in 8" twist, so they can handle the high B.C. match bullets that are available. They can be purchased for around $800 at some dealers, and mine easily puts five rounds into less than 1/2" at 100 yards, on a regular basis. Prophet River just got one in today, and a few other dealers still have some in stock.
 
While the Howa/Weatherby may be a good starting platform for someone JUST starting out, I think the reason the whole Rem/Sav debate comes up is due to the fact that they are the Honda Civic of the rifle world with hundreds of accessories and upgrades available.

Not so much for the other brands that aren't mentioned including Tikka.

That being said, those look like great prices for a first rifle and/or extra rig for hunting/varminting/plinking.
 
stubblejumper said:
The best deal that I am aware of for reasonably priced heavy barrel rifles, that tend to be quite accurate, is the Tikka Varmint Stainless rifles in 6.5x55 that several dealers have on sale right now. These rifles have a 1 in 8" twist, so they can handle the high B.C. match bullets that are available. They can be purchased for around $800 at some dealers, and mine easily puts five rounds into less than 1/2" at 100 yards, on a regular basis. Prophet River just got one in today, and a few other dealers still have some in stock.
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Funny, you should mention the Tikka. I was considering one but the dealers that had them in stock wanted for about $1,100. At $800 that's a fantastic deal. Who has them for sale at that price? Mentioning the Tikka is great but it's almost x2-x3 the price of the Vanguard.

The main reason I posted this here is because there seems to be no shortage of guys willing to spend $350 for a bargain basement Stevens 200 and then spend more money to make it into something. For $430 you're into a heavy barrelled rifle that's good to go with an adjustable trigger. That's a measly $80 more than the bare bones Stevens sporter weight hunting rifle.

Hell, at $339 you're into an action dirt CHEAP if you want to sell off the parts and go for a complete custom build.
 
Funny, you should mention the Tikka. I was considering one but the dealers that had them in stock wanted for about $1,100. At $800 that's a fantastic deal. Who has them for sale at that price? Mentioning the Tikka is great but it's almost x2-x3 the price of the Vanguard.
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The normal price is around $1050, but since Stoeger the distributor has the 6.5x55 Varmint Stainless models on for clearance prices, the dealers can sell for a much better price. As I already posted, Prophet River received one today, but they only received one, so it won't last long. The Tikka may be almost twice the price of the HB Vanguard but it has a 1 in 8" twist, so it can stabilize the 6.5 match bullets, so it is much more suitable for longer range shooting that the Vanguard in 223 with a 1 in 12" twist. It also has a much better trigger than the Vanguard.
 
stubblejumper said:
The normal price is around $1050, but since Stoeger the distributor has the 6.5x55 Varmint Stainless models on for clearance prices, the dealers can sell for a much better price. As I already posted, Prophet River received one today, but they only received one, so it won't last long. The Tikka may be almost twice the price of the HB Vanguard but it has a 1 in 8" twist, so it can stabilize the 6.5 match bullets, so it is much more suitable for longer range shooting that the Vanguard in 223 with a 1 in 12" twist. It also has a much better trigger than the Vanguard.
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No one would question that the Tikka you mentioned is more suited to long range, however, that's not relevant to the discussion either. How many new shooters are looking to shoot long range the first time they pick up a rifle? The answer: None. For more experienced shooters, I think this Tikka offers a lot of value. You can make an argument for anything as long as the money spent is irrelevant.

2bad4u2 said:
Since all of my shooting is done at ranges less than 450 yds. I don't necessarily need a fast twist barrel in order to shoot expensive VLD type bullets. The Weatherby's 1:12" twist barrel may not be for some, however, it was fine for my needs. I didn't want or need a long barrel so the 22" standard tube is fine by me.
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In the context of which I posted, there's not much argument. I'm not claiming this to be your next 1,000 yard wonder rifle. It's far from it.

New into the sport are looking to shoot economically so that they can get lots of trigger time in to get the practice necessary to develop good shooting technique. The .223 Rem. is a logical starting point for the novice shooter or those who don't need the capability of a longer range cartridge.
 
You do make a good point, and for a starter rifle the price point is hard to beat....

But its no where near the platform a Savage or Remmy is for future upgrades. I would think that to be limiting factors for someone looking to grow. A few hundred dollars more and you could have a platform to build upon, no?

Awesome potential for a future gopher destroyer though...:D
 
CanuckWR said:
You do make a good point, and for a starter rifle the price point is hard to beat....

But its no where near the platform a Savage or Remmy is for future upgrades. I would think that to be limiting factors for someone looking to grow. A few hundred dollars more and you could have a platform to build upon, no?

Awesome potential for a future gopher destroyer though...:D
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Every major stock manufacturer inlets for Howa/Weatherby actions. Aftermarket triggers are commonly available if required. Barrel blanks can be machined to fit any action. Optic rails are available from a variety of sources. What more is there? lol.

I personally think there's a false perception here regarding this notion that the aftermarket doesn't support the platform.

I'm not making a case for brand preference here. For if I were, I wouldn't have started the thread to begin with because my brand preference is Remington. Just thought I'd pass along some info for those who frequent the forum. I only found out about the WSS sale from a thread in the "Hunting Rifles" forum. If I hadn't discovered it this morning, I'd have likely bought another Rem 700 that Epps has on special right now.

I think variety is a good thing and I want to try other brands. I've never owned a Tikka before but it's not because I haven't wanted to. A lot of guys at the local range have T3's and they're a fine rifle by all accounts. I've got so many bolt rifles on the go now that I can't see where I'd be willing to add more without selling some off first.
 
If you know how to do a google search I think you can find "aftermarket support" for whatever brand you want. I keep hearing Tikka's don't have any but, try a search on Snipershide for upgrades. Howa's have all kinds of support too because they are popular in other places outside NA.
 
2bad4u2 said:
Every major stock manufacturer inlets for Howa/Weatherby actions. Aftermarket triggers are commonly available if required. Barrel blanks can be machined to fit any action. Optic rails are available from a variety of sources. What more is there? lol.

I personally think there's a false perception here regarding this notion that the aftermarket doesn't support the platform.

I'm not making a case for brand preference here. For if I were, I wouldn't have started the thread to begin with because my brand preference is Remington. Just thought I'd pass along some info for those who frequent the forum. I only found out about the WSS sale from a thread in the "Hunting Rifles" forum. If I hadn't discovered it this morning, I'd have likely bought another Rem 700 that Epps has on special right now.

I think variety is a good thing and I want to try other brands. I've never owned a Tikka before but it's not because I haven't wanted to. A lot of guys at the local range have T3's and they're a fine rifle by all accounts. I've got so many bolt rifles on the go now that I can't see where I'd be willing to add more without selling some off first.
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You are correct, there is aftermarket support for them. I should have been more specific and said upgrades are more available to Rem/Savage, and most dealers will have stock.
 
kmartel said:
Another weatherby mention in the "precision rifles" forum, sigh...
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Let me guess, you own either a Stevens 200 or a Savage Axis, right? :rolleyes:

FWIW, I don't have a particular allegiance to any brand but when you look at the features that a Howa/Weatherby has and the fit & finish level they come with even on the base models, they're a good bargain.

Obviously, you don't appear to like them so I wouldn't bother to try to convince you otherwise.

I got a call from Wholesale Sports today and they told me they ran out of stock of the particular rifle I was looking for...:( So, that left me no other alternative to select another one. Incidently, I ended up buying (2) Vanguards instead of just the one. lol.

I ended up buying a Vanguard syntheric (sporter model) for $369 and a Vanguard Varmint Sub MOA model for $699. Both are in .223 Remington. The basic Vanguard synthetic is about the same price as what a Stevens 200 goes for and that's a great value.

There's no mid-range similar offering from either Savage, Remington, or Tikka that comes close in terms of value for what I paid for the Varmint Sub MOA. Generally, similarly equipped competitors are well into the $1,000 price range, which incidently was what the Varmint MOA retailed for before it was discontinued for the new Vanguard 2 model. I certianly wouldn't have bought the Vanguard for $1,000. If I was to pay that price tag, I'd have bought a Tikka Varmint.
 
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There's no mid-range similar offering from either Savage, Remington, or Tikka that comes close in terms of value for what I paid for the Varmint Sub MOA.
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The Tikka T-3 Varmint Stainless in 6.5x55 can be purchased for $800, which is only $100 more, and it has a much better trigger.
 
stubblejumper said:
The Tikka T-3 Varmint Stainless in 6.5x55 can be purchased for $800, which is only $100 more, and it has a much better trigger.
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The Tikka action is smooth as silk, and every one I have seen has been extremely accurate. I had a T-3 varmint stainless that is now another members bench rest gun...

I guess if we were trying to save a nickle or 2, a Mossberg Night Train looks like a smoking deal too, it even has a tacticool brake. Some people have even had positive results with them.
 
I'm not going to bash any brand of rifle because I'm glad that whatever your budget there is something for everyone.
I do however think that when talking about precision rifles if you try to throw a $350 rifle into the mix your are out to lunch and kinda asking for trouble on this forum. Heavy barrel does not always make for good groups but who knows with this one. This discussion should have been posted in the hunting rifle forum, then no one would be hacking anyone and no one would be having to get defensive.
It sounds like a great deal on an entry level rifle that gets you out shooting but to call it a precision rifle may be stretching things a little.
Let's see a range report before we pass judgement on it. I'd like to see some targets showing what it can do at 500 yards.
 
If we are talking about guns that get no love, add:

TC Icon

Marlin XL/XS (or whatever their lettering is these days). Can even do those nasty barrel swaps in the basement. Floating bolt heads too.

CZ - their small action is a darling and work so well with 223 and 7.62X39 sized cases. Their big magnum action is one of the few designed for the Lapua/Rigby sized cigars.

Ruger - wow, zillions of rifles in circulation. Almost no play in the precision world. For a bomb proof controlled rd action, a modern Mauser.

Being a precision forum, odds are the readers are looking for something with potential to keep with the custom actioned rigs. Think itty bitty groups.

Most precision shooting involves light trigger pulls. unfortunately, Rem and Savage are about the only platforms supported with sub lb triggers.

For hunting, varminting, LR plinking and even tactical applications, there really isn't a brand that can't be made to work.

Manf are starting to support an ever growing list of action makes - why not? There are untapped customers and wallets.

For those looking to build on something other then a Remage, let me know. New stuff for ALOT of different makes.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
stubblejumper said:
The Tikka T-3 Varmint Stainless in 6.5x55 can be purchased for $800, which is only $100 more, and it has a much better trigger.
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Only problem is, you're talking about just (1) gun that incidently, I can't sem to find anywhere because I've been looking. Prophet River updated their ad in the EE today and there's no site of it. So, basically, you're basing the whole context of your argument on just (1) rifle and a chamberring that isn't what I would exactly call "newbie" friendly.

Besides, I didn't want a 6.5x55mm so the price matters very little. Bottom line, anyone would recommend a .223 for most beginners and that's the angle that I'm comming from. I've explained this to you specifically several times now.

I'm not dissin' the Tikka. I'm going to own one some day. It just won't be today. ;)
 
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